This Podcast discusses the @BBC Panorama documentary you can watch here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0026sww/panorama-ebikes-the-battle-for-our-streets
We discuss 3 key points
The overall negative perception of e bike users
The ridiculous situation the police are in
The need for more education over legislation
38 Comments
Why have uou taken my message down because i was speaking the truth
All i said was what would be worse to be hit by a car or a bike or a scooter
The issue here is the over regulation which inherently leads to the situation we have now. Legalise the unrestricted but treat then the same as mopeds and small motor bikes. If people want to ride them, they should be able to with appropriate registration and road use testing. Ban them from pedestrian areas and shared paths.
The fast food delivery services are also problematic. Riders, often paid by the number of deliveries taking silly risks. These bikes need to be carrying plates and be restricted from footpaths.
Even if you wanted to insure and tax and make it road legal where’s the information if any that allows you to do that , fitting indicators , mirrors etc will be almost impossible to do .
I really don't know what the hang up is with throttles. Providing all the other restrictions are in place, the rider cannot do anything they couldn't do without it, except perhaps hill starts would be easier/safer with less risk of a missed pedal etc.
I can easily ride my non-ebike without pedalling, until I get to the bottom of the hill that is.
I actually agreed with BBC panorama programme. If you cycle in London now the biggest menace is no illegal e-bikes (effectively electric motorbikes). Adrian Chiles came out at the end in favour of e-bikes. The problem is the majority of the e-bike you see ridden by delivery riders are these ridiculous throttle assist things with the chain and pedals seemingly for decoration. I have to take evasive action to avoid being hit by them numerous times. How long before these things hit and kill a small child and then all e-bikes are vilified?
Ban Deliveoooooooos. Mystery Meat delivering Mystery meat.
Is anyone surprised the BBC had a one sided report!🤷🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️ unfortunately idiots will abuse anything they can like all the people on private electric scooters which are illegal but still see loads of people in the road on them and Surons, there a massive problem in the countryside as well!
If the police started checking delivery riders bikes they will see that a majority of them are illegal. Legal e bikes are 250w motors pedal assist and cut at 15mph, those on the roads are not, they are either throttle or battery jury rigged. Trains ban all e bikes and e scooters for catching fire. I have recently seen surons riding about where I live all dressed in black, balaclavas no lights on pavement at speeds, dangerous to pedestrians and themselves, the fact that they are legal to buy is the issue.
Ebikes are great. London's E-cyclists are not.
The BBC are notorious for biased, poorly researched knee jerk reporting.
I am neither for or against e-bikes. I have a hard tail mounting bike that I love, but at 53 climbing hills is getting harder so one day I may get one or get a conversion kit.
I want facts and balanced well researched data on it, so as a member of the public I can have and informed opinion.. and make decisions based on good research, and not emotional opinions.
When they send you bikes to review send them to me
Ebikes rock, I make my own it's fun
Deliveroo, Uber Eats and the like, should have to undertake an inspection of the employee's bike before they're hired. And also insist on a tracking device, possibly with a video camera. This may deter these delivery boys from buying these electric mopeds in the first place, and riding irresponsibly. How hard would this be to implement? Not sure.
A lot of nonsense spouted here and there!
The law for E-bikes should be max speed 30 miles an hour. Motor as many watts as you like. Battery as big as you can get. All with the proper quality, safety standards met of course.
More suitable cycle lanes needed in villages, towns and cities and linking villages, towns and cities.
Next!!
Ebikes need to cut out at a certain speed. When will cars cut out over 120km?
Talking about how police officers have these very powerful cars the police should get their own custom high powered bikes. I feel if the police was trained on surrons these people would have no chance. And because the batteries are easily replaceable they can have a spare ready at the station or attached to the bike. Something like this
The Lime bikes in London are the urban equivalent of vermin on two wheels.
The panel should also understand that it is possible to build an e-MTB with say a Bafang motor and battery conversion kit and still end up with a bike that is both perfectly legal and safe. Tarring all none branded bikes with the same brush isn’t a solution especially for a person who cannot afford now the £3k in purchasing a branded bike with branded components. If LBS are unable to touch servicing these bikes then you can bet somebody else will fill that vacuum.
They've ruined it by capping e-bikes at a very low max speed of 15mph or 25km/h. Everyone with common sense will not ride one at such a low speed, so they go for the non-compliant, more powerful 'e-bikes'. The faster bikes are triple fold more powerful than the legal 250W. That's a problem. The 250W max power should be obeyed. Pro cyclist cheaters(year 2010 Cancellara cheat moments)no longer use 250W motor doping, because it's clearly visible, because it's too fast. Now Tour de France cheaters use, more subtle power of 80W or less.
So max power should be enforced, and max speed increased to 25mph or 40km/h. 250W would be enough to do that with 100W input by the rider. Which is reasonable.
If you have an injury or disability yes. If not. Get on a real bike or take a motorbike course. If you under 60 and using one. Why? Ebikes are named badly. There hardly bicycles at all.
Obesity, sedentary lifestyles, air pollution, noise pollution, road congestion. These are all big problems of our day, especially in cities. Seems panorama just did another piece about bikes or ebikes that doesn't address the wider problems that too much motor traffic creates. Was it sponsored by the motor industry?
Firstly, most people DO know the legalities and choose to ignore them (mostly, actually nearly always, men).
Secondly, in London, the vast majority of eBikes are illegal.
I've just watched the Panorama program, people will take from this that E-bikes are all bad and dangerous. (so wrong)
There's a big difference between Legal E-bikes and Illegal E-bikes. If you're riding an Illegal E-bike then you're breaking the law.
Most people who ride E-bikes are sensible with the 25km cut-out they don't move any faster than many cyclists who cycle with a normal road bike. The general point should be how to ride safely in the environment you're in. If you're on a shared pedestrian/cycle path you should be very aware of people.
Im not an ebike user but I keep an eye on the tech to prepare to help my father when he (finally) accepts he needs an ebike in his fleet.
The amount of proprietary systems of ebikes, especially the batteries, means the costs rise/no competition and eaasy of repair drops. Its intentional, and is one of the biggeest drivers of peopel towards the cheaper stuff. Batteries aren't just about the cells, it is critical that they cant become overcharged which is where the danger comes in in the circuitary.
Companies likee Giant need to be pushed towards using a singular system that is interchangable with other ebike manufacturers and to make the systems far more repairable and affordable.
point i will make is regarding throttles trying to get a hevey bike from a stsnding start id hard ,, i am happy with the 15 mph just feel unsafe at juinctions
3 minutes in….The general feel is that the BBC were too negative on cycling.
How often in this video do any of you talk positively about vans and cars? So far, it's all negative.
One van can carry 10 times what one bike can. Bikes are weight restricted depending on the weight of the cyclist and bike.
So, one van or ten bikes? 10 bikes takes up more space than one van.
Economically, one person and one van versus 10 folk and 10 bikes.
10 times the amount on labour for the same result.
10 decent bikes is probably around the same cost as a new van. I'm saying the van will outlive the ebike.
I'm not sure what would cost more to run energy wise. 10 bikes or one van.
Getting somewhere quicker cause folk cycled argument is flawed. It doesn't take into account the council and government polices which are forcing cars out and making driving harder.
Illegal ebikes being a small percentage, disagree.
I see a lot of them.
Most cyclists I see are delivery.
Drivers are not going to see your side if you are so quick to move on from illegal ebikes.
There's not enough criticism of bad cyclists from cyclists.
The public are ignorant to the laws as there are no consequences to not knowing them.
If peope were being arrested or fined more often, people would quickly learn.
21.00 Guy says most drivers underestimate the speed.
Disagree, not most.
This guy is real negative to drivers. Quite biased.
Drivers pull out and make other drivers slow down, not just bikes.
Then a small section abusing drivers for overtaking. Knocked into a hedge, not that common people.
6 minutes to go and the bias and negativity from you all is evident.
Was this done on purpose or were you unaware of how you come across or do you not see it?
Tracking bikes, registration plates…..give itv5 years and your ebike won't function unless you have a subscription and app on your phone.
Being a cynical person I could believe the government are happy to paint ebikes in a negative light with the longvterm view of ebike insurance and possibly even tax.
Lot of lost revenue from petrol and the whole auto industry. Need to replace that.
Issue w8th companies taking responsibility from bad cycling is that the risers are self employed and I'd imagine they have zero legal right to tell the riders how to do their job.
Numbers on riders bags is spoken about…….kinda missing the main issue here I feel. The bags themselves are a safety issue. Never ever see a cyclist wearing one look around properly. As yoi all said earlier, how many of these folk have never seen bikes before taking a delivery job?
All of a sudden they are out and about with an abnormal load, siza and weight.
My issues with e-bikes are:-
Many are e-mopeds (with a throttle).
Many have excess power and speed.
The above are frequently ridden by non-brits that do not know the rules of the road, and have never read the Highway Code. And when riding this type of bike you need to have them registered, insured, taxed, have a number plate and wear a proper motorcycle approved helmet and not use cycle lanes or footpaths.
Who is allowing the importation into this country? They should be ceased on entry and the importers prosecuted.
It's an interesting debate for sure. I have a pinnacle lithium3 (not an e-bike despite its name) and a ceaya rx80. the ceaya can be 'unlocked' to make it fully illegal. I have the 3.5mph ish walk throttle, which is ideal for pulling off from a standstill uphill which is no mean feat on a 35kg bike. the motor cuts out at 15.5mph when pedalling , but the motor is in excess of 250w PEAK POWER.
The controller can restrict the power supplied to an electric motor. so how is the 250w measured? This makes sense for manufacturers just having to make one motor say capable of 1000w and reducing the power to it via the controller to sell it in multiple countries where legislation on wattage is different.
I use it for cycling on routes that have steep hills I can't do on a push bike due to heart rate limiting medication and when it's very windy. I can use some assistance to dial out a strong headwind. I also use it when following a long cycle the previous day on the push bike my legs are a bit tired. I'm not interested in doing moped speeds on the ebike, I have the power for the steep hills and a big battery for longer range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKrRl3Fr5MY
Can't blame bbc because an apple can now be called pear 2025
Only the BBC itself and people over about 65 actually take the ‘journalism’ from be BBC seriously anymore so I wouldn’t worry too much. From recently being in a city centre, the issue isn’t the e-bikes, it’s cretins on e-bikes, like with anything they get their hands on, they’re not going to obey the laws.
Do people even watch and listen to the BBC these days?!
I caught the panorama programme and noticed the bias. If anything it made me want to attempt a diy e-bike build 😂
A 1000w ebike delimited Will do a maximum of 30mph. I did that on a Raleigh grifter that I had fitted a Speedo to. Hardly death defying.
The speed limits pisses me of . 18mph would do . 20 mph would be perfect. The government wants greener travel. E-bikes fit that perfectly.
i don't get why the host acted so scared of the bikes when he was seen multiple times on the show riding a high powered motorcycle capable of well over 100mph. just strange is all.
The BBC has reported on issues with e-bikes that could make them less safe to ride, including:
Fire risk
Lithium-ion batteries in e-bikes can be dangerous and hard to extinguish, especially if the battery is damaged or modified.
Illegal e-bikes
The BBC has reported on e-bikes that are illegally modified or are actually electric motorcycles.
Misinformation
The BBC has been accused of spreading misinformation about e-bikes in a Panorama episode.
Increased road risks
The BBC has reported on how higher speeds and more power could increase the risk of collisions.
Examples
E-bike fires
The BBC has reported on e-bike fires, including one in Bristol where a man died after falling from a 16th floor window.
Misleading Panorama episode
The BBC's Panorama episode on e-bikes was accused of being misleading and fearmongering.
Illegal e-bikes
The BBC has reported on how illegal e-bikes are a problem that should be dealt with at source.