#Sustainable Business Network event covers the social & environmental aspects of the balance between office and homeworking. Featuring invited talks from Ridge, Carbon Footprint and Sustrans.
Slidepacks
www.carbonfootprint.com/docs/hybrid_working_webinar_ridge_150324.pdf
www.carbonfootprint.com/docs/2024_03_sbn_home-work_footprint_revisited_v10.pdf
www.carbonfootprint.com/docs/sustranswcc__sustainable_business_network_hybrid_working_march_2024.pdf
Good morning everybody uh I think we’ve still got a few people dribbling in so we’ll uh we’ll just give it another minute or so while everyone gets here good good program this morning really pleased to have our speakers here today talking about hybrid working I’m at home
Today so I’m hybrid working myself I’m sitting here looking out at the rain so I’m quite glad I’m at home uh so I hope everyone’s comfy andm when they are and we’ll get started in just a minute um before we go to our first Speaker we
Have a bit of a breaking news update on esos so if any of you are registered for esos then I shall hand you over to Wendy who’s going to tell you the latest thanks Duncan and I’m just gonna flash my screen up this really is breaking news
Here I hope you can see that um esos phase three we thought it was all going end in June but as many of know there’s been some substantive changes so close to the end and really not as best def find as they could be that this is a statement
That’s come out just yesterday in a newsletter you might have seen already that um the portal that we’ve all been waiting for to submit our data on two is going to open in a couple of days time but it looks as though it’s not going to
Be quite ready to put all your data on there but here’s the biggie here that no enforcement action is going to be taken if you submit all your data by the 6th of August remember it was the 5th of June previously so it almost looks de facto as though the date really for
Compliance By Any Other Name is now in August um a lot has changed there and it’s a little bit frustrating but there seems to be a little bit more time available you still do need to register your details there on that portal so make sure you do that if you do want a
Bit more information about what’s gone on with esos over recent times just flush this up there’s a couple of videos probably the one on the left sorry we’ve just rushed this out this morning the one on the left of the screen is the more recent of the two and explains what
Happened in that twoh hour long webinar that the EA did so please do Qui take a quick snap of those obviously these will be on the video as well later for you to see and we’ll post some links in there for you to catch up on what has happened
Yes so we’ve got that final dat now in August for esos so thank you Duncan for just giving me a few moments to let you know what’s going on there thank no worries thank you very much um a couple other bits of housekeeping before we start uh
Just oh my sc’s going to not Advance now go on so couple events coming up um uh next month we’ll be having an event on Energy Efficiency so that booking is now live uh so do come along to that one again online on teams um and we’ll look
At some new technologies and behavior change and some principles about reducing your energy consumption which is obiously really important alongside buying renewable energy and definitely before you start doing things like offsetting uh and then in the summer we’re actually doing an inperson event we’ll be visiting un University of
Winchester where they’ve done a load of work over the last year on additional solar and particularly on large scale airort heat pump installation across many of their buildings and Halls of residents um so we’ll go and have a look at some of that and actually have to
Sort of see the installations in place and stand next to one and hear it and you know people will tell you they’re really noisy and actually go stand next to it and they’re not making that much noise at all so if you can join us in
Person that should be first week in July we’re just waiting on their events team to confirm uh what other events they’ve got on at the time so we can pin down that date but we’ll get that out to you as soon as we know when it is um as I mentioned we’re recording
This event we record all our online events um so all of those previous recordings if you’ve missed anything and you want to recap they’re all available on the carbon Academy um web pages um so it’s just big list of all the events and the slide decks and the recordings are
All there so you can go and recap and that’s where the recording of this event will be uh after today and then feedback obviously we love to get your feedback um you know how we’ve done is the time of the session right is the length of the session right are there any topics
You want us to cover would you like to speak at an event in the future so if you get your phone out and scan the QR code and Wendy will pop the link in the chat and uh yeah if we can get your feedback as you go that’s really helpful
Uh it’s much easier for you if you pop your feedback down at the time uh so that you remember it uh so I’ll leave that up there for a minute or so just while you grabb your phones and get that link up uh and also I said we mentioned
We we’re doing questions after each speaker we’ve taken the questions in the chat so any questions that pop up chop them in there and we’ll relay them to the speakers uh as we go okay I think that’s me done hopefully that’s been there long enough and you’ve
Got the link in the chat uh so I’ll hand over to Cara perfect thanks Duncan thanks everybody for joining us um I’m going to start off by talking about the social value of hybrid working which I know under the carbon Academy might seem a bit left
Field but hopefully by the end of the session you will understand a little bit why this topic I think is quite useful in this space so first off a little bit about me and a little about bit about my business so I work at rig and partners we a built
Environment consultancy we work nationally and internationally on uh buildings of all kinds um in all sorts of States um and with all different kinds of clients so we’ve been working with kind of the output of covid and this hybrid working shift of where people are operating most of their time
In quite interesting ways um I have I do have a carbon accounting sort of background so I’m not here just completely out of the blue but I’ve since then moved into the social value space and there are some fantastic opportunities to learn from both in each
Other so I’m hoping that this will be a good start for you guys on that so to start off with what is social value well there’s actually no single definition that’s agreed upon entirely but there are uh groups of people internationally nationally that have their own definitions so social value
International the Pinnacle of those kind of groups of experts Define social value um essentially in relation to the importance people place on changes to their well-being and it make it all about kind of making decisions in a really uh thoughtful and positive way this is a fantastic definition I
Think because social value is intentionally vague it’s intentionally flexible so that it can suit local circumstances at no point should you be thinking you know you have to stick really regimented to this specific definition it’s all about making sure that you’re applying it as is relevant in your circumstances so in this this
Case in your office space or in the area that you’re working in and how that has had to shift since Co has started so here I’ve just highlighted those particularly interesting bits so for me it’s the relative importance I.E what people think of their experience change and then in terms of their well-being
It’s well-being in its broadest definition so we’re not just talking about kind of the health and well-being mental hell sort of space we’re really broadening that Beyond to kind of everything a person experiences that impact their well-being and ultimately as I said it’s about making better decisions it’s about informing decision-
Making so that it’s holistic and um really captures all of the change that we’re going to make so how does this relate to hybrid working um well first of all there’s that change aspect obviously we’ve gone through a lot of that in the last few years the
Well-being aspect again a lot of us are very familiar with how um different pressures have moved since working environments have changed so much and then fundamentally decision Mak in this time a lot of people had to make kind of immediate crisis decisions almost during the covid pandemic and now we’re getting
To a point where people are having to make long-term decisions to either revert um retain or adjust whatever processes were in place ahead of time so it really is kind of bringing all of those elements of social value together in terms of how we move forward uh as a
Business as an office as a nation in terms of our work working culture social value International has these principles of social value and they are designed to inform and support the uh achievement of social value there are a few of these that I’m going to pull out that I think are particularly
Relevant to how we can um improve our understanding and our addressing of hybrid working so those ones that I want to pull out specifically are the first one involveed stakeholders and then two understanding what changes valuing the things that matter being transparent and I’ll explain about that before and my
Personal favorite uh be responsive so what do we mean by that well first off involving stakeholders we mean finding out what’s possible from the people in your offices but also from your landlord from your facilities manager from anybody who has any level of um control or capacity in your space
And it’s really important to ask your teams what they want and mean it a lot of people I’ve seen have you know sent out these surveys and said do you want to work in this way or that way and then ultimately people feel like they get
Ignored and that’s uh never going to be a good thing for team morale but we need to understand what people are driving towards whether that’s a um additional aspects of in Office support or again this move to hybrid officing hybrid working which I think is definitely something we’re seeing a lot of two
Understanding what change is so whatever you do think in terms of what’s possible POS and what’s been requested by your space users think about what change that will create not only to the people who’ve asked for it or perhaps the people using your office what will the
Change be to perhaps other people using your office building if there’s one space that is particularly empty or particularly busy it’s important at this point to consider things in a relatively broad circumstance and then three valuing the thing that matter so once we understand what that IC value will be what do
People actually value the most and how does that compare to what it is going to cost your business in terms of creating that change although social value is about creating this you know positive impact ultimately a lot of us businesses we live in a capital world we have to uh
Understand how this is going to balance out with the costs and then use that to do kind of a broad value analysis to understand what is going to be actually achievable and valuable to your team in terms of cost and also impact and then be transparent so linking back to that
Involving people in the first instance what’s possible and what people want is not always going to be what’s actually achievable but make sure you’re open about the limitations time frames and expectations if people are involved and if people are informed they’re much less likely to uh be discouraged if things
Don’t perhaps go exactly how they’d be hoping which let’s be honest is rare in this life and then finally be responsive ultimately actions speak louder than words as we all know this quote I did find was attributed to Mark Twain but I couldn’t find the source so I didn’t
Want to Source it but I thought it was a great quote so I’ve included It Anyway fundamentally again we want to be taking action we want to be talking about it and listening to our employees I mean even attending this webinar is something that’s a really good step in the right
Direction But ultimately all of that doesn’t mean anything if you don’t do anything with the information if you don’t CH make any sort of changes even if that change is just an increased level of communication about why you can’t move to a more or less hybrid
Model why you can’t do this or that with your space so hopefully that’s given you a few tools to kind of understand how you can use social value to best make the decisions about how you’re going to adjust to hybrid working but you know
I’m am going to give you a few things of what this looks like in practice first of all from a people perspective how we make sure our teams stay engaged and stay informed involved um keeping that kind of office culture that’s so important these days well first off I
Would highly encourage anybody who is working outside of office hours to work offline there are buttons in teams and in um Microsoft Outlook that essentially turn you offline so that any messages or emails you send do not get put out until you then turn it back online it’s kind
Of similar to scheduling this is important because when people receive things out of office hours it can often put an expectation on people that they then need to also be working out of out of hours and while flexible working is great and being able to adjust when your
Working hours are is fantastic we don’t want to be putting undue stress on other people equally it’s really important to call out overworking if you’re seeing people um online at you know Silly times of the day and if you’re seeing that regularly it’s important that we say to
Each other that it’s you know not good for those that indiv ual or indeed for the business to be working at that kind of level uh making sure that part of that culture is that we all protect each other and support each other to take
That break and switch off at the end of the day particularly when we’re not in an office and people aren’t physically leaving a space another thing that’s really important especially when we move further away from kind of a a core office environment is to schedule in work socials so again if people are
Already feeling that pressure to stay on an extra hour or two or to keep the laptop on in case an email comes in if you schedule out of work socials which can be good people will essentially say well if I’m going to be spending that time with my colleagues I might as well
Spend it working if you schedule it in the office um or in office hours what that does is informs people that actually their well-being is important to the company and that time for socialization and team bonding is something that company understands is valuable and that is really important
Again again in helping people feel empowered to make Positive Choices for their individual well-being and then finally really important to leverage impact groups especially when we’re also disperate and not being in a core office place people will share various characteristics protected or otherwise various interests and by having groups whether that’s
Specifically um diversity and inclusion groups or whether that’s just groups of people that share similar hobbies and happen to get together to do those Hobbies uh periodically really leveraging those and making sure we’re celebrating that can make a really big difference when people are more physically isolated and then in terms of
Environmentally what this can look like first off as a lot of people will uh know you can reduce your office space but with leases with um landlords and various things this isn’t always possible and where it’s not a really good um alternative to that is to change
The space use so you can move it from desks to more kind of collaborative spaces they don’t need need as much heating they won’t use as much in terms of um it equipment and that sort of thing so changing that office space cannot only save you money and uh improve your environmental performance
It can also actually open out opportunities for you guys to improve their kind of teamw working when people are in the office space it’s also important to leverage your building controls so making sure you understand what you can and can’t adjust within your space which is going to vary
Depending on uh the type of building uh the type of contract of your lease or whether you own the building and then through that understanding what opportunities there are to reduce consumption of energy but also to kind of maximize that efficiency piece but it’s not all just about um what we can
Do physically it’s also about behaviors so particularly when people are uh out of the office it’s making sure people are reminded and encouraged to fully turn their laptops off not just close the screen and leave it on standby all evening um making sure people understand that it’s not just the laptops in fact
If they’ve got and hopefully they do the full setup that they can turn off the screens and all these kind of extra things that were just adding little bits to their home um energy bills so behaviors and kind of encouraging people to translate any environmentally friendly things they would do in the
Office to what they would do at home as well and then finally um incentives so incentivizing people to uh potentially travel to and from the offices in a different way particularly if they’re doing it less fre frequently maybe they’re able to take a bus now instead
Of um driving or take the train or maybe even walk a portion of the way if they’re not doing it as regularly or in some cases it may even be suitable to add to your benefit system of something that encourages people to get uh green tariffs as it were uh renewable energy
Uh opportunities for their home environment so there’s all kinds of different ways that we can influence not just the space but the people and their use of the space both in the office and at home so in summary I just wanted to pull up those uh principles again because I do
Think they’re incredibly valuable uh I want to make sure that the key messages people here are that to use social value to understand how to create change that’s positive for people we need to be focusing on that change we’re all dealing with this kind of Fallout together we need to understand what it
Is that’s changing already and how we can influence that change in the direction we want to see it’s so important to listen to people it doesn’t really make any difference uh if we’re uh having all these brilliant green initiatives and fantastic stuff if we’re alienating our people anyway so we must
Make sure we listen engage with our people and again that take action that principle a be responsive think about the change listen to what people want and then do something about it and also fundamentally all of our spaces all of our businesses all of our people are
Going to be massively different we need to understand that and Leverage that for the benefit that it can deliver us thank you very much that is me thank you cara know that’s really good um so as I said yes you can pop your questions in the chat so we just
While with people are thinking up their questions I had a couple of things I was interested in just right at the beginning you talked about um relative importance and I just wonder if you could sort of expand on that a bit and do you mean the relative importance
People put on different types of well-being whether that’s family time versus workp space or are you talking about the relative importance they put on well-being versus pay or other aspects of their working life or all of it you know just can you expand a bit absolutely so kind of all of the above
The relative importance piece really speaks to what individuals value the most and that could be to do with which elements of well-being they’re prioritizing or it could be to do with well actually I’d be more inclined to go into the office if there were two screens at my desk because that actually
Really improves my working experience whereas if I go into an office and there’s only one screen that’s going to detract me it’s also thinking well is which changes are we making are going to be more valuable to the people that we’re speaking to basically it’s all about understanding what matters to
People um which is incredibly vague and Incredibly broad but really important to know before we do any big changes in this space okay thanks and and on the bit about you know so asking people what want um a lot of people if you ask people what they want what they’ll
Probably come up with is something really mundane because they don’t know what’s possible so yeah there must be a you know there must be a feedback process how do you elicit people what they really want but they don’t know they want to ask for it or they wouldn’t
Dream of asking for it because they don’t think it’s possible so is that a sort of a multi-stage process yeah I think it’s important to know kind of what your audience is because if you know the audience particularly is going to be a bit more reserved or a bit less kind of
Innovative then yeah you might want to put in there some kind of really out of the blue options just to get people thinking out of the box it is all about again kind of making sure it’s relevant to who your audience is if you’ve got a small team it can be really
Collaborative straight out the bat but if you’ve got a bigger team it might be a bit harder with all those voices and you might need to make it more of a kind of systematic iterative process okay thank you um sorry Wendy I think you po your hand up
I know there’s there’s another one after me this is from one that’s been submitted or emailed across to me actually anonymously which is about um how you manage the lone worker situation and I think what’s being referred to here so many of us because of the demographics these days live alone and
We have a situation that if you’re doing a high percentage of work from home you’ve got people obviously in quite solitary situations and perhaps some of the mental health issues that may go undiscovered um that we need to very carefully keep an eye on so really it’s
The keeping in touch issues when you have so many Lan workers no absolutely and I think you know Ridge has invested a lot particularly recently in this space we have an employee experienced lead who leads all of our well-being aspects and that um I worked alongside with her to
Put things together like lighthouse construction charity partnership that we’ve now got which encourages people to be able to access that locally but also it’s about how we understand our teams in Ridge the majority of our teams are uh 10 people or fewer which really enables us to have that core kind of
Connected group of people looking out for each other and that’s so important um for us and for kind of spotting those things no it’s absolutely something we’re aware of and figuring out along with other people I’m sure yeah I mean just a carbon footprint we have a thing we the morning huddle
That we started actually during covid so we get online at 9:30 just for 10 minutes and it allows us to see obviously what everyone’s working at um on um and it allows us to see how folks are and it’s just that being proactive with line managers just noticing if
Someone is a little bit off and is maybe working from home for reasons that are not to do with all the other reasons we talked about here that could be hiding something much bigger absolutely be proactive about absolutely it’s an area that seems to have become much more aware recently particularly with young
People and new starters in an organization where they may have re relocated and come to an area where they’re hybrid working um and if they’re working from home a lot they’re not making the new friends that they would expect to if they were working you know continuously in the office um so yeah
Somebody online’s just talking about their daily scrum little bit rigorous but you know keeps you going um we had a question in from Beth asking about whether you knew the examples of the sort of rearranged office and collaborative working spaces if is anybody who done it really well or
Anybody who could offer advice on how to do it I don’t actually have to mind any examples of rearranged space but where we’ve been expanding quite a lot as a business we’ve been moving into new offices and it’s been a really big Focus to make sure that those spaces are kind
Of spread through out the office so it’s not just one Hub of people that can quite often make people feel kind of strange about using those spaces they feel immediately very kind of isolated in that space that’s supposed to be collaborative um and making sure that there’s different types of space
Available so there are those sofas and kind of open Talking spaces but there are also conference tables out in the open where teams can get together and um formal and informal spaces that are available generally so again I think it’s not unfortunately back to this um it’s it’s all about your specific
Circumstances and understanding what people want and what’s possible in the space and then leveraging that to the best that you can fundamentally um one of the tenets of social value is that you speak to people and understand what matters to them and that will ensure you have a positive and functional
Rearranging of your space because people will use it because they want it right and we better move on thank you very much Cara that was really good and thank you for the questions everyone um so if Joel if you can grabb the screen I
Shall hand over to you okay do um so my name is Joel and I work for carbon footprint as the uh Technical Innovations manager um so effectively what we’re going to talk about here is how to calculate uh your Caron footprint of H workking and also in some respects
Commuting because these two things are a little bit linked um I did a similar presentation about four years ago um and you might remember that that was just right at the start of covid um I figured out oh yes we’re working from home reducing emissions from sites um
But what about the fact that we’re working from home and using our energy at home and yeah so we’ve started assessing this since then um because we realized it was a problem right hit button um okay so we got a poll for this um if you want to do the poll uh quickly
Scan the QR code uh uh so does working from home always have lower carbon footprint than working in the office is what we asked you and you said sometimes yes and sometimes no so and I think you’re absolutely right there um obviously it depends very much on commuting distances it would be nice
To uh more accurately get this information because obviously there are if if we’ve got different scenarios say winter and summer where it’s it makes more sense to go to the office makes less sense to go into the office I feel like we could make reductions well companies that have quite significant homeworking or
Commuting Footprints could make significant reductions here so it’ be good to see that cool let’s have a look at the next question um where are you based for your work uh so it looks like most of you are hybrid uh which I think is pretty common
After covid it would be it would have been nice it would be nice if we if we had the data for before covid as well but um I I guess it sort of depends on if you would have had that um it’s nice to see that there’s out of the exclusivity
People um there’s more people who are exclusively in the office which I think is also somewhat a common thing there’s um it’s very rare that you’ll have a fully homebased uh company um there’s a lot of there’s a lot about that in the news about people not wanting to not wanting to be
Exclusively homebased but then being that they have to travel um halfway across the country three times a week it becomes a bit of a problem um does your business collect data on home working for its carbon footprint assessment um some bits but not all uh yeah it’s nice to see seven of you
Saying yes um I don’t know how many of you are people that we work with but it might be it might be the case uh but yeah some bits yeah it makes it look like quite a lot of you are assessing it to some degree and a couple of don’t
Knows uh do you think going into the office at least some days benefits social mental well-being absolutely um I think there quite quite a good commonality here um some of you have said maybe and one of you has said no um May maybe you’re a bit of an introvert no
Offense um yeah it’s uh it’s not for everyone I kind of get that some people work better on their own cool um is that all the questions I think so that’s it quite interesting to see uh I think a lot of people are along the same lines
On that so where are we after covid um so in February 2023 40% of people were home workking this is sort of fluctuated between about 30 and 40% um since I guess the end of covid um as you can see here they stopped tracking in February 2023 which is a bit annoying
But um at the same time it’s it was looking like it was on a slight upward trend from 30% I think people were generally more looking for hybrid working um as an option um given that they found out that it is a possibility um obviously they changed
The wording of the question in February 2022 all they did was remove the words uh because of Co I think a lot of people were realized oh this is a permanent thing now so that’s why they did that um why else is this relevant so the government just passed a bill which
Means that people will be able to request hybrid or home workking um from day one yeah so you could end up with a lot more people requesting it is I I know that if I were to move jobs now not saying I would Wendy um but if I were to
Then it would definitely be something that was um high on my agenda um I’ve also noted here that 80% of people um aged 20 25 plus who can homework um do the reason I’ve highlighted 25 plus here is under that age it’s a bit um dodgy in terms of the statistics
Because you’ve got a lot of uh Hospitality workers and stuff like that where they physically can’t work from home um there but it shows that it’s it’s what people want again um there isn’t a particular ghg protocol category for H workking however because it relates to commuting when
When you do more commuting you do less homeworking when you do more homeworking you do less commuting um we quite often assess it within this category okay so that’s where where we are um in terms of Assessments so yeah I’ve I’ve written here is is why is hybrid working an
Issue is it a big problem we have some companies which we assess the emissions for where they have high levels of commuting so we’ve got um a company that’s mainly in the office here 21% commuting and we’ve got a company here that which is uh um 40% home workking so
As you can see it can result in quite a significant portion of company’s emissions um and so therefore we can’t just ignore it uh because that would be yeah it would mean that we’re missing out on quite a significant portion of of emissions um okay so what do we need in order to
Assess the emissions of home workking um so we need to survey your staff obviously they’re not going to be too forthcoming if say hey can I have your energy bills so uh we need to get data which we can then use in order to estimate the emissions from homeworking
And commuting um it’s not it’s never ever going to be per perfect but um this should get what we need um from them obviously save save time save money survey them both at the same time homeworking and commuting um so we need items like the working hours and days at home working
Days at the office in case they’re a a part-time worker and you can’t just subtract from five um need uh information on whether they’re Al loone during office hours so the reason we want that is because if you’re at home alone you might be heating the building for yourself
Whereas if you’ve got other people in the house it would have already been heated anyway so therefore it shouldn’t come under your company’s emissions um did you heat the home this winter the the reason I mentioned that is because I didn’t really heat my flat this winter
I’m in a pretty weird situation though where the flat is in the middle of a block of flats so I just end up with everyone else’s heating which is pretty nice situation to being um but also if we put someone as a AO a home alone worker um then we don’t want to
Say that they’re heating the house when they’re not um um the next thing is what country are they in so this is just because there’s different heating regimes you might be heating you might be cooling um in in America I know that depends on state by state you could have
One state where they heat in the winter and cool in the summer uh other states where they they don’t have any cooling other states where they don’t have any Heating and so on and so forth um and finally here I’ve highlighted in green are you on a green tariff uh so this
Gives you the option to assess Market based emissions for hom workking um most people do location based here it it’s the easier one to do also if you’re looking at Green tariffs the risk is that you actually increase your H workking um assessment just because you then also have to assess the residual
Mix um but when you’re doing this you just need to make sure that you’re doing one or the other and you specify which you’re doing um in terms of commuting we need your mode of Transport vehicle details carpo details um so that’s just we don’t want to be double counting
Basically and finally we need the distance if we can’t get any of that information the UK census has quite good data so if you’re a UK company which most of you should be um well I don’t say should be in that sense but if if
You are a UK company we can use quite good estimates which look at the sector of your employees and the region in which they’re working in and um obviously that’s based on the the biggest survey that ever happens so that’s uh that would be quite good
Data okay so we need to assess your electricity consumptions somehow um and I’ve unless of course you have a 10mile extension cable reaching your office um so how do we how are we going to do that well this is going to be pretty much the same for everyone who’s
Who’s doing office work from home um you’re going to have a laptop a screen probably maybe two um I’ve just assumed one in this example um you’re going to have some lighting a kettle and um a microwave I’ve said so you’re going to have some hot drinks and your and probably heat up
Some food at lunchtime um otherwise you would be doing this in the office uh which you’re not so therefore you’re doing it at home instead um anything else that you’re doing at lunchtime watching TV whatever I haven’t included here um because it’s it’s not really I guess work related you can do
Anything in your own time so how have we calculated this uh for most things we’ve got the power rating so I’ve just used sort of I guess my own setup but assuming that it’s similar to what other people’s setups are um to calculate that uh lighting you might have lower levels of
Light than that um most LED lights are about five Watts nowadays um but you could have multiple in in your room I’ve got five LED lights in here um so that’s about 25 watts Kettle so I’ve just done a little calculation to work out uh the energy per cup of
Water that you’re going to heat up um and I’ve worked out that you you would use about 25.1 kilowatt kilowatt hours in a 45 week year um microwave lunch one meal a day thousand watt input um don’t be confused by the output that which is on your uh microwave that’s not quite um
The total which is going in and yeah so that that will just multiplies up use the emission factors that we’ve got uh for Generation tnd D and Welter tank and you can get emissions it’s very low about 0.06 uh tons of CO2 per year per person Heating and Cooling this is where
Things get a little bit complicated um because of of course we don’t there’s no real way in which we can physically assess this um so what we’ve assumed is that by working from home um you’re going to increase your gas use by about a quarter if you’re in the UK
Um so what what we’ve got is the average gas kilowatt hours here and the 25% uh margins there um so this depends on how many people are in the house so we’ve you can divide that by different numbers of inhabitants um anyway long story short
If you’ve got one person in the house um for a three to four bed that would be about7 tons of co2e 3 four bed is about the average house size in the UK um if you’ve got four people in that house you divide it by four you get
About 0.15 tons of CO2 yeah so this is rounding it up with electricity this is uh what you’d get um however like I said earlier if you’ve got a um if you’ve got other people in the house you’d be heating uh the building anyway so the your company doesn’t care uh that
Doesn’t matter uh so that’s what you’ve got for heating what what you’re that now thinking is but I’m not driving into work your home emissions may increase um because you’re working from home but you’re not driving in so you’re absolutely correct um it depends on how you would
Get to work though and the distance that you’re you’re going in this uh shows the average distance that people travel uh by different modes of tra transport um annoyingly again previously they use census data for this this um particular case they’ve they done little surveys which uh is the government
Choosing not to use better data but that’s fine um and yeah ultimately if you can bike or walk in that’s that’s the best option um so should you homework or should you commute um well yeah it depends a bit are you heating are you and how far are
You traveling um what I’ve done here is separate the uh emissions based on whether you’re whether you’re working in winter or summer in the UK um so if you’re if you’re working in Winter likely is you’re going to have the heating on so I’ve applied the heating
Emissions over the six cold months here and um assuming that you’re not going to be Heating in summer which is what most people do as you can see it actually makes quite a large uh impact so if you’re drive if you tend to drive into work if you’re driving in more than 17
Kilometers then it doesn’t make sense to be uh driving into to work in from an environmental standpoint however in summer it’s less than a kilometer that you’d have to drive in because obviously the emissions that you’re you’re getting from using your electricity at home are really
Low um however this I think is quite a good thing go linking back to the social side of things uh that Cara was talking about because um I don’t know about many of you but uh quite a lot of people are they suffer with seasonal affected Disorder so in Winter it actually makes
A lot more sense to travel into the office anyway um so it it’s nice to see things sort of line up from that standpoint there so overall uh should you well how how do we calculate emissions we do it by just taking average data for for different scenarios for employees
Commuting we actually use their distances so that’s the more accurate calculation that we’ve got if you can work from home less in Winter you would actually reduce your emissions uh whether that’s included within the calculation or not who knows it’s because everything is done by estimate if you’re the people that are assessing
Your emissions are dividing it over the whole year dividing your heating over the whole year you might not see the benefits of that however I think it’s something that we should be paying more attention to I think if we can encourage people to go to the office more in
Winter and less in summer then that would be that would potenti potentially reduce emissions um but ultimately check your distance how how far are you tra traveling in if you’re going by train you can go miles and miles of miles and it makes more sense to to do that rather
Than work from home remember that your office is always going to be um it always is always going to be open anyway if you’ve got one so the site emissions there will will just keep going unless we of course we have another covid so that’s that um are there any questions I
Guess hi Joel thank you and yeah there’s been uh quite a lot of chat up in the chat boxes uh a lot of people very impressed with calculations particularly around how to calculate the energy consumption and making a cup of tea um that was surprisingly complex was yeah
Okay so it’s complex but at the time when I calculated it four years ago we didn’t quite know what what the impact was going to be so we we we did the calculation anyway um just to make sure um so you with your calculations and particularly those ones about
Occupancy of the home and heating um that seemed quite complex and somebody I think it’s Susie mentioned there are homeworking conversion factors in the protocol um do you think you your calculation is is more comprehensive and presumably based on the data you gathered from your staff is that do you
Think that’s better so what we what we did from that so if we go back to the let’s go back to this slide we what we did was so the the two the two lines we got highlighted here we got three to four bed where it was about 61 and the
The three to four bed with four people in where it was uh about 0.15 those were the the values that we took obviously the second of those values we ignored because um they’re heating the house for other people therefore it’s it’s uh it’s not relevant to your company so we have
Just got the two the two values and the the homeworking CS that they have in ghg protocol were originally taken from a I can’t can’t remember who published the white paper but the white paper was pretty much looking at it pretty much said the same thing as as what we’ve got
Here if you if you’ve got people alone then you’ve got 7ish tons is um and if you’ve got more people then it’s slightly more than that um within carbon footprint we do change the electricity value vales we we’ve got the uh the heating values that are varied based on
Which country they’re in because obviously it’s all very well looking at um it’s all very well just applying oh this is going to be this number of tons but it’s actually very different um in in different places okay thank you um Abby was asking about um if people have got their own
Technologies you know solar panels and things installed uh you know how you would incorporate that yeah solar panels make it a bit complicated obviously there there’s not a way we we could ask them if they’ve got solar um and the likelihood is in summer again when you don’t need quite so much
Reductions it would uh it would probably have have an effect but again the amount of emissions that you’re getting from electricity is Tiny it’s 06 tons uh per person okay if you’ve got a lot of those then it adds up but for the one or two people who have the
Solar it’s probably not going to it’s not going to have too big of an impact on this calculation um there’s there obviously there’s bigger errors we’ve got here um particularly around the gas usage so thank you very much Joel and Anna there you are you’ve popped up
Ready to grab the screen so I’m going to be following on from Joel’s presentation and um talking about um how hybrid working um impacts our commute and particularly around active and sustainable travel so as Joel said um if we are traveling into the work along into work alongside our hybrid working
We need to think about what sort of Journeys people are making um so first of all a little bit of background um so I actually am employed by the uh walking and cycling charity Su strands who aim to make it easier for everyone to walk in cycle um I’m currently on a contract
With Winchester City Council as their sustainable travel officer and I particularly specialize in Behavior change so I’m looking at um helping people in terms of sort of skills and knowledge and confidence move towards active travel and public transport and car share um so I’m not so much focusing
On what services is available or what infrastructural facilities are available but how people can change their behavior with what we have at the moment so um in terms of my role at Winchester City Council I support um workplaces to promote sustainable travel um so particularly workplaces within the
Winchester district and that’s why I’m here today um I also run sustainable travel initiatives and campaigns um with residents commuters and visitors to the district um I support the transport team on active travel provision so things like cycle parking or cycle security marking events um and also I promote
Sustainable travel with the council staff so obviously we’re keen for the council staff to travel sustainably set a good Example um so first just a few words on hybrid working specifically um the policies at the moment are for Winchester City Council um that staff come in at least 50% of their working hours into the office and that’s to encourage um good teamw working and good working sort of cultures and uh working
Together and getting ideas of each other um San setup is slightly different um we’re a national company we’ve got a lot of people spread all widely across the the UK and many people like myself are um implanted within another organization and often use their offices um so it’s
Less um uniformally prescribed it’s more locally determined of where people go into the office um but just to give you a a taster of the type of things that both of those organizations or either of those organizations do to help hybrid working um so they provide equipment um particularly phones people say mobile
Phones making it easier to um work uh from home we do um display screen equipment self- evaluation for people working at home make sure that they are um working in a a comfortable and safe way uh the Winchester City Council also run carbon literacy training and that we
Find that quite often helps um employees understanding of the potential impact of their own actions on their carbon footprint and on the organizations carbon footprint and it leads to um participants making pledges um to change um their behavior and often that might be around um thinking about how they are
Energy efficient when working from home or how they are commuting um sstrs also have a meat-free hour because they’re conscious that sometimes particularly um in the when working from home that you can have many meetings in a row and it can be um quite sort of daunting so they make sure they
Put a gap in the middle so that people aren’t invisibly sort of having uh no breaks at home um and also I think really um looking at what Cara said about sort of having um social events and um within the the Working Day and really encouraging that sort of bonding
That used to happen very well because we were all in the office together all the time it we’re now having to make a more concertive effort to make that happen and really to sort of add those social elements into the day um I thought I’d also mention um
Some of the information um that can be passed on to your colleagues and staff about how they can make their homes more energy efficient um when working from home um so this is the type of information that the council shares in in newsletters um so firstly I find the
Energy savings trust is is good for tips on how to um improve the Energy Efficiency of your home um there’s also the warmer home schemes um scheme which is um giving you fully funded um grants to make improvements to your home so that could be for things like insulation solar PV
Um panels um heat pumps uh that type of thing um there is a um a cap on the income um that you can get for that which I think from April is going to be um less than £36,000 for the household and you also have to have a certain
Energy certificate but it is worth letting your staff know about these types of things because it may be relevant to some um and it may help them make their homes more energy efficient reduce their carbon footprint reduce your organization’s carbon footprint when they’re working from home home um also Hampshire County Council
Previously have offered a solar together scheme um it’s it’s Run for the last few years I’m not 100% sure it’s happening this year but I’m just putting it out there um so that you can keep a lookout it usually opens up in summer and it’s um basically a group buying scheme for
Solar panels um so residents can um Express their interest in getting solar panels provide a little information about their home and then get a a quote um and Hampshire County Council organize the collection of the quotes they choose a a single supplier and obviously UM Vet
That supplier um and then the quotes go out to all of the people who entered into the group buying scheme and they have the option to go ahead with it or not um it’s it’s their own choice at that point um so schemes like that can
Be helpful um hopefully it will be out in 2024 but we’re yet to hear um and also the government’s uh boiler upgrade scheme um so again that’s really offering grants to cover part of the cost if you’re changing your fossil fuel boiler over to a heat pump or a biomass
Boiler so I think it’s worth letting staff know about the type of help they can get and what they can do to make their homes more energy efficient because it helps them in terms of saving them money reducing their own carbon footprint but obviously going back to
What Joel said the calculations of of heating our homes it can reduce the uh the amount of emissions that are going into our organization’s carbon footprint as well um so yeah really carrying on um from what Joel said um want to move really on to looking at particularly employee
Commuting um so that does feed into our carbon emissions under scope three the indirect emissions and and that’s why um I’m in the role I am trying to really reduce the carbon emissions for the Winchester District that come from commuting um and what we see is that
Travel is often one of the largest contributors to carbon emissions for businesses um including the staff commuting itself and we sometimes find that um employees of a company don’t realize that their own commuting is counting towards their companies um carbon emissions and it can be worth
Making sure that people do know that and that um if they do make a change to active or or sustainable travel that they can be helping you achieve your carbon targets as well um alongside that um sustainable travel can help improve the um staff’s mental health and productivity so there’s all sorts of
Stats available things like um people who travel actively take less um uh sick days um and tend to be more productive um so there’s lots of benefits from it and also it can help improve your corporate corporate image and um help with um recruitment if you’re promoting um sustainable travel and making it
Easier for everyone to have those choices um so I just wanted really to to talk a bit about the relationship between hybrid working and how people commute how people travel um as Joel was saying hybrid working typically means less travel um which can mean lower carbon emissions from transport um but
There’s some trends that I’ve seen coming out from the workplace surveys I’ve seen from um across the area and also conversations I’ve had with local uh um businesses and their staff um that show that hybrid working can change um commuting choices um so firstly hybrid working has some um financial
Implications on commuting so first of all if you’re hybrid working you’re traveling less often and therefore the cost of your commuting typically takes up a smaller proportion of your income um so that might mean that people consider modes that previously were a bit expensive but if they’re only doing
Them once or twice a week they might switch to that mode um also it can mean that season tickets are not available um so train and bus season tickets or people think they’re not available in some cases there are so for example um the rail companies offer a um flexi
Season ticket which allows people to buy a season ticket covering eight days of travel in 28 days so if someone’s traveling in two days a week um they can get a season ticket which offers them um I think when I tested it out between Winchester and Southampton it was a
Discount of around 18% on buying individual tickets so there are still some season tickets available but potentially the real or perceived savings um for using public transport AR aren’t as good if you aren’t traveling every day um other implications on of hybrid working on on travel is commuting
Distances so what we’re starting to see is that people are happy living further away from their workplace um because they’re only traveling in once or twice a week this can mean that public transport and active travel can be possibly harder and particularly active travel because of that long distance
Involved and also those distances um can mean that actually the commuting carbon footprint can still be quite high so a short um commute that was happening five days a week might be the equivalent um carbon footprint to a very long commute that’s only happening once or twice a
Week um and finally um access so um what we’re seeing for example in Winchester is that the bus um level use hasn’t increased um to the same levels of pre-co um and this is because some of the large Employers in the area are hybrid working so um there’s lower
Levels of bus use which can um affect the financial abil Financial viability of those services so we’re we’re seeing a little bit more of a strain on on whether those um public services and buses can be keep um being provided if they’re not being used as much because
Of hybrid working and equally we see with a lot of organizations that they have less pressure on their car Parks so before hybrid working before covid um there were quite a few organizations that were really struggling because their car Parks were so full and that would almost be a deterrent sometimes
For people um driving to work because they might struggle to find a car parking space or they might think about car sharing because of the limited availability that seems to have gone um for some businesses and they they don’t have that problem because they only have a small smaller proportion of their
Staff in each day so all of those implications of hybrid work work on travel um can influence our commuting travel mode um and they can make uh car use appear um more appealing and most appealing out of the options there um and this can work
Against what many of us are trying to do in reduce our carbon emissions um so it’s actually more important than ever to support our staff to travel sustainably um and to help them do that so that’s what I wanted to focus on for the next few minutes um and
Just run through some of the things that organizations can do to support sustainable travel with their staff so firstly I would review the current situation um so Joel very kindly already listed the types of um questions that you can go in a staff travel survey on
Top of that I would add questions around what um could you do to incentivize people to switch to walking cycling trains buses car sharing um and that can tell you what actions you need to make um conduct an audit of your site look at what facilities you have um in terms of
Cycle parking showers um lockers drying areas uh car sharing spaces electric vehicle charging and have a look at what what the gaps might potentially be and also um do an audit of what staff benefits you have so do you offer season ticket loans or a cycle to work scheme
Or a salary sacrifice um car ownership SC scheme that would allow people to buy electric vehicles when they otherwise might not be able to afford it so the first stop is really looking at where are we at the moment what’s the current situation um and this can often form the
Basis of a workplace travel plan so look at your current situation think about what aims and targets you’re trying to a achieve and then what measures you can take um so quickly now I’ll just run through the the measures um some of the measures that you could put in your
Workplace travel plan to support your staff in moving towards sustainable travel so a bike doctor um some organizations run these onsite free bike mechanic coming in and checking over bikes and doing minor repairs um a travel Road Show so we ran one of these towards the end of last year at
Winchester City Council um we had um Representatives come in from local bus companies we were promoting the staff benefits that they get such as the cycle to work scheme we were promoting a local car share app um and also um cycling challenge that was on going on at the
Moment and it was just a opportunity for people to come along they got some free food and we talk to them about their travel Journeys um winchest city council also run their own car share scheme if you’d like any advice on how to set up your
Own um please do feel free to get in contact I’ll share my contact details later um and I’ll also be talking in a moment about a car sharing app that is um available across the solar region um also consider whether you’d like to get pool cars or have a pool uh
Car club for your organization this can mean that um you your staff don’t need to drive in um even if they need to drive for work that day so it can mean that the the commuting carbon emissions are cut out um because they’ve got that available or even pool bikes um so if
You’re somewhere where staff are making relatively short Journeys that could be switched to bikes um then that can help your carbon emissions as well um and we’re also in the process of producing a staff travel information pack for staff at Winchester City Council so new starters and indeed all all staff it
Will be launched with all staff but particularly new starters get that information on how to travel sustainably into the office so all the facilities all the local bus routes uh the cycle routes how to walk uh from the station that type of thing all in one one pack
Um so this is just um some photos of the types of um events we’ve been running at the the Winchester City Council so the staff travel Road show The Bike Doctor there on the bottom left um so it’s really good to be able to engage with people directly and run inperson events
Have those conversations and beyond that um we can also um promote existing um ideas or um initiatives that are going on um so you can set up um walking and bike buddies within your organization help people help each others each other and give each other advice um and also share
Roots of how to to get to the office a bit like I was talking in the travel information pack um you can promote local um lead bike rides or bike buses um often people need to sort of start slowly cycling in their own time and do it for leisure before they would
Consider it as a cycle commute so I’ve put British cycling um let’s ride there they run um local um free bike rides um across the uh Hampshire area um and also promoting things like the two pound bus Fair cap making sure your staff know about that reminding them that it’s
There encouraging them to try bus uh travel um within Winchester um city council we also run a um workplace Travel network for local organizations um we’ve been meeting quarterly mostly online and the aim is really to share travel updates um from the council and other partners but also for workplaces
To share their learnings and case studies on what’s worked um for their own workplaces in terms of promoting sustainable travel and talking about the challenges you come up against so I’ve put my contact details there um if you’d like to know more about the network um
Or in fact anything else today um please do feel free to get in touch um just lastly I wanted to talk about um the my journey workplaces team um so they are actually based at Southampton city council and they cover the region shown in red on the map here
So along the M3 Corridor and the M27 corridors and they also offer um support to workplaces around travel um and workplace travel um so they might be relevant to to other organizations here they run and and pay for a um love toide cycling challenge um which local
Businesses can take um place in take part in um it’s all already set up um and really easy to take part in they provide promotion materials so you can just send them out to your staff and encourage them to get out on their bikes it’s a bit of fun
Competition um they also have a um a app that is designed um to allow you to plan book and pay for all your sustainable travel Journeys in one place um so you can look at how I get from A to B and it will say how um what training Journeys
Are available how much they cost same for um bus same for cycling um and looking at things like even um feries as we go on and um the higher scooters and bikes that are in Southampton and Portsmouth um and then also there is a car sharing app that comes from my
Journey um your organization would need to register with my journey to take part in this but there’s already 21 workplaces across the solent area using it and the app matches your staff with potential car sharers um either just within your organization if you prefer or with other organizations in the area
It’s your choice of whether you do do it internally or broader um staff are incentivized by prizes that are paid for by my journey and there’s um options for you to add in a guaranteed ride home for your staff and priority parking for car sharers um so again if you want to know
More do get in touch with me and I can put you in touch with the my journey Team um dates for your diary I just thought I’d put in some dates that are around um sustainable travel um for the coming months um it’s really good to tie in any promotions with um under these umbrella themes um sorry the 22nd of April I’m trying to think what that
Might be something’s gone wrong with my slide there um but yeah there’s definitely something happening on the 22nd of April um and that’s it I will stop sharing my um screen thanks Anna I think 22nd of April is Earth Day thank you yes I was just done something wrong with my slide there
Thank you that’s all right I’m really interesting thank you that whole bit about unintended consequences and travel choices is something that comes up in sustainability so many times that you do one good thing here and something weird happens that you won’t expecting over there and so yeah people are so
Difficult to work with I don’t know and so just uh while we’re waiting for some questions if anyone’s got any um you mentioned things like sort of loans for season tickets and this might be a question for all of our speakers actually whether any businesses do the
Same thing for people who want you know to insulate their homes better because they’re at home more than they used to be or they want some solar panels do you know of any organizations that will help you you know they help their own staff to fund those things through through you
Know loans or access to finance and that sort of stuff I’m not aware of any yet but I think it’s a lovely idea yeah no it’s not it’s not something I’ve heard others talking about um I think um what I’m quite Keen to do um is encourage
Businesses to um not only for public transport but do similar support for active travel so I think sometimes businesses are offering things like free parking and um public transport loans but it sometimes active travel is the Gap where there’s not the the incentive or the the financial support as much to
To help with active travel yeah but yeah to know if you could get a um an air source heat pump on a salary sacrifice that would save you a bit Wendy hi going to Echo that point exactly you just took the words out of my mouth if
Only we could have salary sacrifice in the same way that we do and obviously that makes the EVS very super economic from the benefit and kind position wouldn’t it be great to have that for things that we do to our homes bit of lobbying maybe to do there absolutely
Yeah we’ll work on that one should be easy and just I was interested you know you talked about provision of Kit to help people work at home with laptops and stuff I think you mentioned phones I think that’s really important a lot of our staff uh you know they all started
Using their own mobile phones during covid and things but then it’s really difficult to turn off so that provision of you know that kid so you can then turn it off at the end of the day I think it’s really important yeah we had exactly that conversation this week and
I think it does vary with people what their preference is within sstan Some people prefer to use their own phones to find it easier I prefer having a separate one for that reason that you know you can choose when when you do and don’t get messages
Yeah okay uh doesn’t look like we’ve got any more questions from the audience Wendy did you want to pop your slide back up that you wanted to share I’ve got something that’s been um emailed across right okay want they want to stay Anonymous um we’re talking about the environmental and social impact of
Um working from home and hybrid the other P the other pillar of course of sustainability being the economic one and the effects of our neighbors Hospitality cafes shops Etc when we do have so much working from home so really squaring things up there um I’ll put that to the
Panel I think I mean we’ve heard a lot of this in the news recently about particularly in London with your coffee shops and things that are really struggling because the people aren’t you know they’re not going out for lunch they’re not grabbing the coffee on the
Way to work um and to a certain extent you know there’s there’s not a lot you can do about those businesses in those locations but all of those people are still drinking coffee and they’re still having lunch and they’re still meeting people they’re just doing it somewhere
Else so it may be that there’s just an there’s a relocation that needs to happen for those kinds of businesses um and that you know if people are getting together with their their co-workers maybe they’re doing outside of the office uh if you’ve got a group of
People working in the same space and they all get up together and the Costa down the road instead of the Costa in different city um so I think yeah there’s a relocation not necessarily A disappearing businesses there is something just with International women’s day having just
Gone that Ridge did within all 11 of our offices and that’s something you know we’re aware nationally we’re quite desperate um so we sought to find local women-owned businesses each of the areas and then use that as a way to advertise to the people in the local offices hey
You’ve got this great bakery and their cakes are great so I think there are ways that we can support it it’s something certainly we’re very aware of um because we do still operate Within These business within these areas even if we’ve got fewer people coming to the
Office or they’re coming to the office less frequently we still inhabit that space and have a responsibility to support that area and I think also um encouraging those in informal team Times Really and perhaps using local establishments for those you know because we’re seeing each other Less in in person in the office
That we need to really make use of those times being together and although increasingly offices are becoming really well equipped for and sort of group Gatherings um really having a change of scene and moving somewhere else kind of adds a nice Dynamic and um we’re lucky
In Winchester we’ve got quite a few um sort of local independent um places within a short work walk of the office which makes that really um feasible I think I have seen in one or two outlets I wouldn’t say they’re particularly in the Nationals incentives on the quieter days the the Mondays and
The Fridays for you know a cut price cappuccino Etc so maybe it’s you know a bit of a bit of uh demand Management on Hospitality side and just changing to these are changing situations really yeah thinkes people the option to so Joel you’re really quiet for some
Reason up here I was just going to say yeah is gives people the opportunity to help keep their local shops open which um yeah I mean I I’ve lived in towns where where the shops just gradually shut and to be honest I’d much rather have those shops around where I live than than
Around the office but that’s that’s my that’s my thought on that yeah oh absolutely and just an important comment from Susie about homeworking supporting Working Families and particularly working women and just providing those opportunities to get back into the corporate world at a level you wouldn’t necessarily be able to do
If you were having to leave work early to go and pick up kids and I know we’ve got a lot of very busy women at work who are they arrive a bit late and they leave early to go and pick up the kids but they’re still doing the same amount
Of work but in shorter hours um and they’re yeah they’re all Manic and so yeah doing that work from home just means you can achieve more at a slightly more less intense Pace depending on what the children are doing at the time I think um hybrid working needs to
Um be flexible really to suit different people because I I I was thinking while Joel was making his comment about is it better being in the office or not um I I’m lucky in that I’m quite close so I walk um so for me a lot of the time
Particularly in Winter I have been in the office quite a bit in summer I may be at home a bit more um but also I live alone so if I am here I’m heating the house but I’ve also got a bit of that social isolation we were talking earlier
So for me going into the office is actually very attractive but I work with quite a few people that the practicalities of their rout routine and their day means that um working from home certainly quite a few days in the week just makes everything flow better
So I think we’ve got to recognize that different people different stages of their Journey different living situations are going to want to sway a little bit more one way or the other and it’s good to be able to accommodate that yeah I think it gives the gives people
The opportunity to uh live where they want to live as well which uh I think before covid uh before covid um I moved to I moved down to basing Stoke and I decided that I would yeah after covid had hit I decided oh I actually want to sort of experience more places
So it kind of gives you the opportunity to do that I think is great for people’s lives um we talked about well-being oh people need to see other people people need to go to the office but it also lets people live their life more which I think it’s a beautiful
Thing yeah I also wanted to come in and say I think we talk a lot you know this is about hybrid working but I think it’s become quite clear to me throughout this session that we can’t talk about hybrid working and flexible working as distinct things they have to be understood
Together um in terms of reacting to the need that people have and the benefits of all sides of how we can work yeah absolutely uh and just a point there in the chat about uh maybe you saving money on the vast very expensive copies is not a bad thing for a lot of
People um right well I think if we’ve got no more questions I think we’ll call it a wrap there uh Wendy you were going to share the feedback form once again before everyone goes um so if you haven’t already grabbed hold of that form to
Fill in then do that now uh and I’d just like to say thank you very much for coming and thank you to our speakers that’s been really interesting and quite enjoyable from my point of view and um yeah hopefully we will see you again for the next one