The Heidelberg Laureate Forum Foundation presents the HLF Laureate Portraits: Yael Tauman Kalai, ACM Prize in Computing, 2022.
Interview recorded in 2023.
In this series, join us as we meet with the top mathematicians and computer scientists – recipients of the Abel Prize, the ACM A.M. Turing Award, the ACM Prize in Computing, the Fields Medal, the IMU Abacus Medal and the Nevanlinna Prize. We ask them about their lives, their research, their careers and the circumstances that led to their awards. The opinions expressed in this video do not necessarily reflect the views of the Heidelberg Laureate Forum Foundation or any other person or associated institution involved in the making and distribution of the video.
Background:
The Heidelberg Laureate Forum Foundation (HLFF) annually organizes the Heidelberg Laureate Forum (HLF), which is a networking conference for mathematicians and computer scientists from all over the world. The HLFF was established and is funded by the German foundation Klaus Tschira Stiftung (KTS), which promotes natural sciences, mathematics and computer science. The HLF is strongly supported by the award-granting institutions, the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM: ACM A.M. Turing Award, ACM Prize in Computing), the International Mathematical Union (IMU: Fields Medal, IMU Abacus Medal, Nevanlinna Prize), and the Norwegian Academy of Science and Letters (DNVA: Abel Prize). The Scientific Partners of the HLFF are the Heidelberg Institute for Theoretical Studies (HITS) and Heidelberg University.
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[Applause] I think my ability to focus is definitely a key characteristic and has really helped me I think without that I would have a difficult life I grew up in an academic family my dad is an academic he’s a professor of Game Theory so I had some academics in my house an academic
Atmosphere but my surrounding outside my house was extremely not academic the school system was mediocre at best uh in general academics or school was really not a part of my life it was the most negligible part of kind of what I cared for what I focused on uh
I think really any form of academic came into my life after the age of 20 I remember actually when I was probably 9th grade or 10th 9th grade I remember I got a report card which was horrible but one of the things I remember there were
How many days you were missing and I had to remember something like 158 days and I remember my dad looking at at the report card and he’s like how could that be there’s not that many days of school how can you been missing 158 days so
That’s kind of to show you nobody called my parents you know here you know I now live in the US I have three children who are raised in the US and there you know my poor kid tries to ditch one class and immediately I get a phone call that the
Kid was not in class uh in Israel the you know kids can enjoy the entire year nobody would know what they’re doing and so that was kind of the environment I grew up with my parents were not happy uh with how my performance at school to
Say the least um my mom was less she always she cared less she was all about health and us eating well and being happy and I know academics were not for her the most important thing but my dad being an academic himself he was quite upset uh
So yeah he he gave me a hard time especially my older sister was a pretty good student and she was very serious kind of girl so that was their expectation and then came me who I was a bit of a troublemaker so I remember I
Was told telling him I want to go out with my friends and first he was really he like uh no you know you didn’t study you don’t go out and then of course he was also really unhappy with the hours that we went up very late until 4:00
A.m. and and but I remember I had a secret way of convincing him so I told him okay give me a riddle and if I solve the riddle I can go out you know as soon as I start talking with him about math he gets uh you know a little more um
Soft so that was my way of you know exiting the house at night I used to solve a math riddle and you know if I was successful I got I got my way out so yeah that was my my secret weapon to to you know a happy
Childhood actually I I really loved math as a kid that the discovery did not come later it came very early on but there was no way to to explore it and I remember we learned this how to do long long uh Division and it’s like an algorithm and I remember thinking why
Does it work so yeah you know you copy the number here you subtract you add put digit here put digit there but why does it work and I remember I convinced myself I kind of what I would call now a proof why this algorithm works and I
Remember feeling like so happy like I got it I and I knew it at that point that you know that’s rare like none of the kids try to figure out you know soon as they could do the algorithm you know they were happy so I knew I had a love
That other kids didn’t yeah but there was nothing to do with it uh I even remember when I was in fourth grade uh they chose some kids but a lot of them almost I think half the class I know big chunk of kids to do some advanced math I don’t
Remember what it was but they were chosen to kind of uh move on to some program or whatever and I wasn’t chosen so it just to shows you in a random mediocre place they chose almost half the class and I so I was like
I I I didn’t shine in any way to other to other people in other people’s minds but in for me I actually did know I love math uh but I didn’t know what really to do with it so I was a terrible student I never studied all I did in high school
All I did was Sports I was a competitive water skier and I was in the water skiing Park all day before school during school after school and but in college when I started college I remember remember after my first class right away as soon as I entered the first class it
Was like I was so happy I was so happy cuz they taught me such interesting things and abstract thinking and it was I I remember that from day number one in college essentially until now I feel like I devote 100% of my free time of
The time I can to study math and do research uh study teach it’s I got hooked really by after first day studying math for me really changed the way I think about life and a little bit I can’t say incore my personality but it did leave a very significant imprint in
The way I think and one of the things indeed it made me a much more humble person because when you study math there are some things that you are sure they’re right you have very strong confidence and then you learn actually you were wrong and you know when enough
Times you have a very very strong belief that something is true and then you actually you get a proof that what you thought of is false you start to um be a little more humble person and questions your opinion uh more and are open to other ideas more um that’s a theme that
Happens a lot in mathematics where our very very basic intuitions are actually incorrect I find uh doing research and even studying math a a very meditative experience it has some very beautiful and clean and Abstract way of thinking that for me is like deep meditation uh you know my kids sometimes
Laugh at me that when I think or when I work they’re like Mom Mom Mom Mom they get upset because I’m so deep in thought I kind of can’t hear anything a you know I like working in cafes a lot I go outside to sit in Cafe and work and
People tell me aren’t you distracted by conversations I can’t even hear what people are talking about I’m so kind of deep in thought and I remember once after I was sitting in a cafe and I was thinking and I was like thinking and then a person just was looking at me
It’s like what are you staring at like all upset I was he kind of as if I woke up from a dream I’m so sorry I didn’t even notice that I’m I was just thinking and my I guess my eyes got stuck at the poor guy who felt like I don’t know I’m
Stalking him or something but uh I I do feel it’s a very I get into very focused modes when I think it’s a very calming experience I like it a lot I studied math in the Hebrew University uh at that time by the way it was when computer
Science it existed but it wasn’t a thing it wasn’t n so it wasn’t wasn’t so popular like it is today and I remember I got a lot of from my dad and other people what are you going to do with mathematics what what what would you
Want to be a math teacher and I remember thinking no I don’t know what I want to do with it I I I I didn’t even I was thinking that’s a basic you know I’ll do that and then I’ll think what I want to
Do uh so I I didn’t come with an a clear intention of what I want to do I think mainly I really wanted to study it it was something I really had passion towards and I wanted to study I remember my dad told me it’s not good to only
Study math you won’t have a job you should study economics too and I remember telling I’m really not interested in economics like well you should at least do a partial degree like a half or something in economics after a while I was like fine I I’ll add
Economics so I added economics to my my uh my undergrad kind of uh main study I went to one cl my first course the first class after one class I was like I can’t take this this is not for me and immediately I kind of canceled this all this idea so I I
Really the my path was more from Passion than from kind of it came from my heart and not from my head maybe I don’t know it may be the fact that I’m a woman that allowed me to not be so stressed about you know what it’s going to be my I
Wasn’t sure my mom never or okay she worked but she never had a career year really and she stopped working as soon as my dad made enough money to support the family so I I grew up thinking oh her life is great like my mom seemed so
Happy so free she did whatever she wants and I was thinking maybe my life is going to be similar so I wasn’t really thinking of me having a career I started actually doing uh a graduat um like Masters in in Hebrew University in math so I continued math because I really
Love math I still do but I felt at at that point you started doing research and I looked at what kind of research people are doing and it seemed very incremental to me it seemed like a very old uh subject that has been studied for so many years and it really felt like
What’s left are crumbs I’m not saying that’s true but that’s how what it felt like for me that either the questions out there are either too hard or not interesting uh so I wanted something a little more new some I I was looking for uh I wanted to do research in a place
That I can contribute and solve interesting problems really interesting problems and at that point I remember a friend of mine told me you should go to theoretical computer science uh first said you should do you should go to computer science I was like I’m so not a
Technical person like I don’t like to program anything that has to do with any kind of electric device is not for me so I was like there’s no way I’m going to do it and I remember he told me well you should at least take a class by aivon
He’s teaching a great class in I remember he the name of the class was pseudo random generators and I remember telling him I’m not taking any class about generators to me I thought it’s like some electricity device today I know that it’s just about Randomness uh but I remember he actually needed to
Convince me it took a lot of convincing and then I went to class finally and I loved it so it was that was kind of my I you know the first kind of my Pathway to thetical computer science and then I was thinking I it was kind of clear to me
That that’s just math and disguise and it just has more kind of interesting new problems and that’s when I went um to whitesman Institute I came I showed them my transcript I told them I’m I’m interested and I was told that they do an exam an entrance exam I just want to
Say I want the exam I was very late in the application so I was way too late but I was hoping I had very good grades from undergrad so I was hoping they’ll see my grades and let me do the exam or maybe you know uh wave some deadlines
For me so I came to the head of the department I showed him my transcript I remember he was like oh that looks great yeah yeah welcome and I was like what do you mean welcome I I I got in he’s like yeah I’m like I don’t need an exam he said no
Your grades are really good so it’s okay like really and then I started questioning that entire place I’m like that easily you let people in and I remember asking him telling him but wait I don’t even know how to program and he was like oh me neither I’m like is this
Place a joke uh but it’s a great place a terrific place and so that’s where I did my Master’s Degree and uh with adish Shamir I had a amazing experience I think somehow ad’s personality the way he gave it he he uh uh taught in a way that really got me
Captivated uh also the subject even though the way he taught he taught him very applied kind of or much more applied than my interest but so I’m not sure it’s the actual content because actually the content itself is not really as I said it’s more applied I
Like more Theory more um kind of math oriented uh but something about the way he taught it really captured me uh uh and then I remember I felt like uh I want him to I want to work with him I don’t care on what yeah one thing that’s
Really nice about cryptography that I really like is it’s both mathematically very very interesting so when you sit and solve the problem it’s really really interesting riddle I don’t know the it’s beautiful questions but also it’s very relevant it has real life uh relevance and that’s something that like why I
Chose not to do m math uh is that it seemed who cares you know so you people you know came up okay they worked so hard and this is the result and you’re like who cares I mean of course to them they care I’m not say I don’t but like I
Wanted to work on something that I can explain to people why it’s interesting so yeah my research it’s theoretical in nature uh I do a lot of other things too but one of the focus areas that I’ve been working on for many years is on securing comp computation which means if
You ask someone to do a computation for you uh let’s say it’s expensive computation you can’t afford to do it on your little device that you have at home and you want to you Outsource that computation to Some Cloud computer or some other entity that you may not trust
So you Outsource this computation and then you want somehow a certificate from them that the outcome is correct so you know maybe it’s an expensive computation so they have the incentive to not do it and just tell you the outcome and that’s it so you want some certificate that certifies that this
Outcome is indeed correct so that’s kind of one example of a problem that I’ve been studying uh for a while how do you get these very succinct certificates for very complicated computations with Ure with kind of a uh soundness condition that ensures that you know you can
Verify it and if you verify then you know that it’s correct typically you know I feel like research questions come to me I don’t search that much because the world is changing so fast that it just raises questions so for example the questions about sucing proofs when it it
Started when cloud computing came about you know there was all of a sudden it was several years many years ago but all of a sudden people talk about cloud computing and that computation is not done on your own device anymore computation will be done on the cloud
And immediately you’re like wait how so what about privacy what about integrity what about it immediately kind of these questions come to you uh more recently I’ve been involved in kind of quantum so now you know quantum computers are starting to seem like a they may be a
Reality this raises also a lot of questions uh a lot of concerns in terms of cryptography because now we need all our crypto systems to be secure against Quantum adversaries possibly and then another question is also not just as an adversary but actually okay if quantum computers will be available how can we
Use them securely so so I guess my answer is the world throws problems at you the world is moving fast enough that kind of you get a stream of problems uh thrown at you uh kind of daily in cryptography it’s enough that there’s one strong quantum computer and that can
Break our schemes so it’s enough you know you don’t need the concern is you don’t need to wait until we’ll all have Quantum you know abilities on our own devices it’s enough that a few of them exist and we’re in danger so and moreover in cryptography you need to be
Ahead of the game so if now you can’t wait until it will be a reality by then it’s too late so uh I think now there’s a huge amount of uh a push in the cryptographic community to make everything postquantum secure we need all the brain power we can get uh it’s a
Great field to be in so for PhD I went to MIT so I moved there because of I had a I met my boyfriend who’s now my husband uh he was a post academ it and I wanted to be with him so I kind of at
The spur the moment I just thought I’ll go I I’ll go visit and I’ll see I’ll see how things go and I remember after I came to the US without I left my apartment I had an apartment uh I left it I didn’t I didn’t pack I didn’t I
Just went for to be with him for a bit I didn’t know how long I thought probably 2 weeks I think my plane ticket was for 2 and a half weeks and we went on a road trip together and then by the end I remember he was telling me so what’s the
Plan are you like how’s this going to work are you going planning to go back home and I was like no I want to stay with you and I remember as soon as I told him that we were in a road trip somewhere in the South we drove like you
Know I don’t know 14 hours straight almost uh and he was like okay the semester at MIT is starting like tomorrow I’m like I what do you mean the I’m not I’m I’m a student at vman Institute like it’s like okay just I remember we came back to Cambridge and I
Remember kind of the next day I remember sitting in a class taught by Madu Sudan and I remember thinking to myself what the hell am I doing here like how did this happen to me why am I sitting here and then I asked Madu Sudan who was the
First person I that I interacted with uh if actually he even offered he knew Adam cuz Adam was a postto there and he was telling me uh you know if you want to stay you can be a visiting student and I’m like really how does how do you
Apply for that like oh I I can support you I’ll fund you for a visiting student I was so surprised I was like why would you do that you know nothing and it’s very hard to get into MIT it’s very very selective I was like so at that point I
Was thinking wow people probably really love Adam my husband you know my boyfriend the time cuz why would you want to take me but he did and then uh shaffy goldwaser who turned out to be my advisor she was actually on my Committee in for my Master’s Degree in vitman
She’s both in vitman and and at MIT at least at the time she was and then I remember I contacted her I told her that I’m coming to MIT I want to stay at MIT for a while and if she’s interested in working with me and I remember she was
Telling me I want you as my student so don’t worry just you just need to go go through the you know the application don’t spend too much time on it just kind of uh and so so moving kind MIT was a very smooth transition I was very
Lucky especially now that I’m sitting in the admission to take you know PhD student to accept PhD students I feel like so hard to get in I would never have gotten in but you know luckily I kind of uh I already had some papers and
People knew you know knew my work so uh so that part was easy and in terms of leaving my family and my country it’s interesting I didn’t think about that I always felt like it’s for now everything is for now uh so I wasn’t actually aware of how significant this decision was um
Only actually only when my kids were reached a certain age that it hit me that this is actually a Perman nothing is permanent but like that I I’m raising American Kids and my kids are American and even though my family my kids have very they all speak Hebrew fluently and
We go to Israel a lot and so they do have an Israeli aspect to their personality and the way they grew up but it you know I the fact that it was a major decision hit me only only much much later yeah so shaffi goldvaser was
My PhD advisor you know when I went to my PhD I didn’t even think about the fact that until then or until the end of my PhD I didn’t really think about the fact that I’m a woman in computer science H it didn’t seem that the gender
Is the issue here it’s about science not about gender I didn’t think about it uh I in in indeed it was very rare to have women you know it’s most students around me were male uh so I was in clear are very you know I was in a minority that
Was not a question but I didn’t focus on it you know I didn’t care and Shafi is a very strong woman and now she’s very good you know she’s extreme she’s brilliant and she’s very very highly regarded you know my field has great women and I never felt uh that women are
Regarded like less regarded than men it never kind of hit me until I left a might that all of a sudden I noticed that actually in other places women are like I see great women that I feel like are amazing and other people may not
View it that way and that really hit me at that point yeah so uh I think for women in computer science it’s often challenging uh a it’s challenging for many reasons a they don’t have Role Models B uh so I’m hoping that I’m I’m helping a little bit in that front uh be
They were raised often to think they’re not as good I mean they that’s not the objective function for them often uh a I can say for myself you know I grew up I remember actually when I went to PhD I remember my grandmother telling my mom
How can you let her go into a PhD program how this way she will never find a husband first she can find the husband first you’ll find a husband and then from my perspective she can do 10 phds she can do as much as she wants but first she needs a
Husband and you know that’s I don’t think my family is that extreme in that regard I think a lot of women come from backgrounds where they’re not um the expectations or what they they weren’t raised to think of themselves as strong academics so and together with being a
Minority in a field it’s it’s challenging um my advice is don’t just focus on what you believe you can accomplish you know go with your heart don’t don’t spend too much time don’t spend energy on how other people view you or it’s hard it’s it’s difficult but and it’s easy to get very
Offended when you know when a comment is thrown at you um related to you know you feel related to being a woman that’s not called for that make but my advice is as best you can don’t think about it and you know sometimes it bothers me that who cares
What of gender this is not about gender this is about science why do you even think about that you know do I tell oh you have brown eyes you have blue eyes so who cares this is you know the gender is irrelevant here it should be about science so you know
That’s that’s you know that should be the goal I think what’s actually much harder is once you have children and then juggling the two is very difficult and here my huge advice is think about what you care what’s for you the most important things and try
To kind of reduce all the noise so don’t you know you know what’s important to you what what important to you about raising your children what’s important for you in your career and just focus on the most important things because even that you don’t have time for but this
Advice is true for men and women it’s not only for women but I think there’s much more expectations outside of work from women than there are for men uh maybe it’s getting better these days uh but you know when we raised our kids it
Was very clear you know my Adam and I my husband and I were joking that you know we were both academics we had the same job we split our demand like our demands from home kids house everything pretty much equally I mean you know there’s things I focused on there was things he
Focused on but and every time we like we left our little nest and talked to other people it was clear that like anything that had to do with the house or the children it was on me like they have a father you know so uh so you know it’s
Like whatever I did is not enough and whatever Adam did like oh what a great father you know uh and so it’s difficult to manage that so my advice is um just focus on what you believe and don’t listen to others and what’s harder than for me for me actually not
Listening to others is easy because I I have strong I have a lot of confidence so when I think I you know I have a confidence is in my way and uh it’s easy for me to shut off uh the world but I know for many people it’s hard but what
Was harder for me is to actually understand what’s really important for me and what things I can let go of uh and that’s I think Carter so for example a I don’t know I remember my my son when he was a newborn I took all the clothes
Everything for my sister I never went chopping for him and I remember walking with him in the store he’s all pink cuz my sister had a girl so he’s wearing all the these pink things whatever people oh she’s so cute and I’m like thank you cuz
Of course I embarrassed to say it’s a boy actually but I I didn’t have time to you know like our house was always super basic and like there’s some things I like I don’t care what my house looks like I don’t have time for that right now so like understanding because of
Course I care what my house looks like but not as much as the well-being and of my kids and what they eat and how they their activities much more important to me so I just let go you know you need to let go of things that are important to
You but not as important to you so you know you need to know what what’s worth your time right now and what is not worth some things are just toxic and you let them eat at you so it’s hard sometime to not to let it not to be
Affected by negative things that come your way but that’s very important because it’s a waste of energy and a waste of time and you don’t even get anything out of it when I arrived to Georgia Tech I had a child who was 2 years old and right when I started I
Started in September 1st in August 29 the day before I’m supposed to start I gave birth to my second child so yeah when I was in Georgia Tech I already had two babies we were planning on staying there for a long time uh but after less
Than a year uh we got call from Jennifer Chase uh she’s uh for Microsoft and I did my post do with her uh half my postc with her my Microsoft research and she told us that she’s opening a lab right next to MIT and when I heard that I remember
Adam and I were both on the phone on different phones cuz she said you want talk to talk to us both we both held our phone and she told us she wants us to she’s founding a new research lab and she wants us to join and I was like yes
Yes I told her we’re going we’re going uh kind of whispering to her to him and he you know I remember he was like wait wait you know we were kind of uh uh so for me it was clear that I wanted to go back to Boston I actually really liked Atlanta but Um I I it was clear to me that going to research lab at that point and leaving Georgia Tech was the right decision for me when I talked to Jennifer first when she told me she’s opening a lab I remember the first thing I told her was well I’m I’m basic
Research I’m not into I I I can’t really help Microsoft in any way I I I like to work on just basic research and she’s like of course that’s what that’s why we’re hiring you and and I said so but I I will be of no use it’s said I think
Differ I’m like no but what what’s the expectation I was worried because I’m like you’re going to hire me and then there’s going to be expectations which I won’t fulfill so I want understand what is your expectation like for you to do basic research I was like wait I don’t buy
It why is why is that good for Microsoft like that’s what Microsoft wants they want a few people to just do basic research I was worried because I felt like At Heart I’m an academic and I was worried that I I’m not a corporate person uh so I felt like that’s not a
Good home for me on the other hand I thought extremely highly of Jennifer chase her group at Redmond was amazing mathematician and physicists and computer scientists so I believed in her ability to hire great people uh but I was worried because I felt like also I really enjoy working with students and
That bothered me a little bit but with that I also felt like I have two young children and I’m very very busy and I really just want to focus on doing research and raising the kids and I felt like I can’t handle a lot of over right
Now and I remember I told her I don’t think I’m going to come for long uh so I was very honest I told look this sounds great but my heart is in Academia uh I’m happy to join for I don’t know four or five years but eventually I’m going to
Go back to Academia said yeah that’s great and actually it’s funny because I stayed there for 15 years because it was impossible to leave the place is heaven uh I had such a great time at Microsoft uh we had a great group extremely acad ademic we had tons of visitors from
Academia a lot of students uh interns and just students from the area MIT Harvard bu Northeastern it felt like a very very academic kind of Oasis uh and I I couldn’t do better work anywhere else I was I’m very very lucky to have had that opportunity so each person has
Is productive in different circumstances and having the freedom to work in whatever way is good for you is very important another thing that is very important is to have people around you to talk to and to bounce ideas for me some people there are a few people who
Work well in vacuum actually but most of us we need other people to kind of Bounce idea off you know have kind of late night parties with uh you know next to the board and you know uh celebrate together cry together when things don’t work like
Do this roller coaster of it works it doesn’t work there’s a bug there’s a fix all you know it’s a very emotional process and having someone to do it with you uh is is for me for example is very important I think for a lot of us that’s
Kind of what uh you know it’s a motivating thing when you when you’re not alone in that uh kind of roller coaster and I think Microsoft my lab in particular was very very great in in that as aspect so for example uh for example I work very well as I said in
The beginning in coffee shopping I like H some I need to change places I can’t sit the entire day in the same place because sometimes I sit in the same place I feel like I’m cycling the same ideas I don’t know and then I need to move somewhere else I need a different
Scenery and I never had an issue of like oh you need to be in the lab these hours I can be really all they cared is they want to see that I’m doing good good work that’s what they cared about how I’m doing it you know I nobody ever
Complained you know about where I am how many hours how many this am I working a lot am I working less am I it was completely up to me uh also I think the freedom you know as I said I raised three kids and um you know the things
Came up during you know raising sometime this one is sick this one has a party in school this one has the I I always had the freedom to choose my schedule uh and that was very very important to me and I think each one of us has our own needs
You know for each one it’s different and the the Freedom you know being creative requires a lot of freedom for me I work best in the morning I’m sharp everyone’s asleep so I have no distractions I wake up early and that’s my thinking time I
Often I don’t I don’t open my email I don’t check anything I just take my paper a pen a paper and I think and uh you know I I love that time morning I know many people like working at night you know I think a lot of us like like
When the world world is asleep somehow there’s quiet enough and you can um you know think best for me getting a research problem out of my head is very hard I get addicted to these problems I remember like um there was one problem that I was working on for a very long
Time and I remember one time I gave a talk I was telling the audience please get me out of this misery can someone just solve this problem for me I would be so happy I just want to stop thinking about it uh so I I get addicted to these
Uh problems um what what helps me kind of take a break so sometimes you need to take a break I have to say many problems that I solved I took a break and came back and solved them sometimes you need more you take a break and more ideas
Come about people in the in the field kind of you hear more ideas and all of a sudden you can kind of use them or you know take it all of a sudden you have our ideas are are built on other people’s ideas you know uh who I am
Today was not the same as who I am a week ago because I learned more things during this week you know I went to talks I learn so we as researchers evolve all the time so sometimes we work on something a lot we’re stuck a year
Later after hearing more result all of a sudden you know we have more techniques and all of a sudden we’re able to solve the questions so for me seeing spark in my students really Sparks me I get really excited uh by other people’s excitement in particular by the students
Uh so that helps kind of move away from other problems even though the problems even problem that I’ve been thinking about for like almost 20 years they’re still and I didn’t solve they’re still with me I remember sometimes my students are like I’ve been thinking about this
Already for three months and I still didn’t solve it I was like three months you got to be kidding I’ve been thinking about things for 10 years and I didn’t solve them okay you know 3 months is nothing so many times I have a conversation with my students that they
Tell me they get alarmed that you know they didn’t publish anything and and they’re not making progress and I always tell them I think you’re making great progress look where we were a week ago and where we are today we are the way we understand it is very different they’re
Like yeah but we don’t have the result so what that’s not the definition of progress the definition of progress is that you you advance in your head you’re you understand it better eventually you eventually a result will come but I think defining progress as kind of the output
Of the paper is not the right measure you know doing research requires a lot of uh faith and a lot of patience and you also need to know when to let go sometimes you know okay so you had a good idea maybe the problem you were attempting didn’t work maybe it’s too
Hard maybe you don’t quite have all the all the ideas yet maybe it’s time to move on to another problem but often this idea may still come handy at some point so you know at the end of the day sometimes it feels like oh you made progress in one
Day but it’s not in one day it’s all these kind of understanding understanding that led to that one day look sometimes you stare at blink piece of paper nothing comes to your head then you’re stuck then maybe I don’t know maybe you take a break maybe you move to
A different problem maybe I don’t know go for a swim I don’t know do something else but as long when you think about a problem and you’re oh oh I understand this oh any understanding that’s progress even failure even failure is very important and it’s part of the
Process it’s definitely a journey and it definitely requires a lot of patience and a lot of uh hope and int like being um persistent a lot of pers persistance um and that’s I think where having a community behind you is very important cuz when you’re alone it’s so easy to
Get demotivated and not believe in yourself and but when you’re a group you know not necessarily working on the exact same problem but you know you’re all trying you know that you’re not alone in this kind of uh fight you know of moving science forward and that’s really Fun Oh