What is it like to enter the labor market for immigrants in Norway today? We hear stories about those who have applied for hundreds of positions without getting to a single interview, those who have long educations from other countries that are of little value when you come to Norway and those who have gone to the drastic measure of changing their name in order to get a job.
Do we have discriminatory and racist practices in Norway? What barriers do immigrants meet in the Norwegian labor market? How can we achieve a sustainable and more inclusive labor market?
This event is part of the University in Bergens SDG conference. Is will be livestreamed and recorded for the podcast “Akademisk aften”
Introduction : Ingrid Stensnes, Bergen Public Library, projectleader for the Sustainabilitylab
First speaker: Benedicte Nessa, NORCE
Benedicte Nessa is a social scientist specializing in sociology of migration (Ph.D) and a researcher at NORCE Research. Her work focuses on, amongst other, refugees, labor market integration, and the role of civil society in integration processes. Key themes include discrimination, exclusion, belonging, gig economy, and social sustainability. Nessa also has extensive experience with a major civil society actor, where she has worked on and led projects aimed at preventing exclusion and marginalization.
Second speaker: Francine Mbanza Jensen, founder of Unity Sparks and leader of Empo multicultural resource centre
Empo-Multicultural Resource Center offers meeting arenas, courses and counseling, as well as Social, cultural and professional activities for adults, young people and families with immigrant backgrounds. We promote diversity, dialogue and participation in a Norway’s Multicultural society.
Spee H thr it down speech for speech Fore speech speech speech spee fore I like than yeah in the spring of 2022 Ahmed faad ashra the debate editor in Aisa Oslo stated I no longer have the need to be perceived as Norwegian in an open Ed called nosn for the Norwegian enough for those bastards in proportion to the increased
Hatred against minorities I feel less belonging to the Norwegian he said I am Norwegian turned into I am born hair and I am a norian journalist turned into I work for a norian newspaper and this open Ed triggered a debate about identity and belonging in the Norwegian Society in abua a former
Minister in the Norwegian government with a minority background criticized ashraf’s decision to Define himself out of the region Raja was provoked that someone who had given every opportunity in the Norwegian Society chose to Define himself out of this Norwegian he said it was um dangerous for the Norwegian society and this
Debate actually accumulated in a book called nosn Norwegian enough where people representing a variety of minority populations share their Reflections about identity and belonging and it was aiming to challenge the perception of who makes up today’s Norway simultaneously as this happened on a region rap duo with roots in Egypt
And India did something that has never been done in Norway before they performed 10 soldout shows in a row in alsoo Spectrum the largest concert scene in Norway and their latest latest project called Umar Sharif which they call diaspora pop is a highly Progressive culture class both in
Terms of Language and Cultural and language references and with this project they were now actually referred to as a National Treasure they were loved by the nation and before the album’s uh release Shirak and megi who make up K they actually thought that um Sharif would have a limited reach and they were
Really surprised uh at how the population embraced the project Shirak and Mei are children of immigrant parents and that project actually um particularly portay portray that Legacy and this lecture will explore how immigrants and also particularly refugees how they experience labor market labor market integration in nor
Way and at first glance that has nothing to do with the story that I just told but yet somehow it does those public conversations and happenings symbolically frame the context in which the immigrants coming to Norway enter this discrepancy between ashraf’s abandonment of the need to be perceived
As norian and also the wide Embrace of Kus diaspora pop represents kind of the ambiguity that is found in a norian context and also this appears as a this apparent contradiction is also like a symbolic marker uh of of in which immigrant labor market integration occurs and at the core of this ambiguity
Or am ambivalence there’s images and stories and narratives of exclusion and inclusion in various forms and for immigrants that embark on a new lifeair in Norway labor market integration can in many ways portray these similar economies of inclusion and exclusion belonging but also longing to be so against this
Backdrop the tonight’s lecture is entitled the Norwegian labor market for immigrants is it sustainable my name is Benedict Nessa I work as a researcher at Norse Research Institute with a specialization in sociology of migration and I actually did my PhD on labor market integration of refugees and I will start this lecture
By providing you a little bit of facts uh what do we actually know about labor market integration um for immigrants uh in Norway today and secondly I will try to use some of the examples from an ethnographic study that I did among refugees settling in Norway and trying
To move towards the Norwegian labor market and I will use some of the stories from those participants uh to try to shed some light with some individual experiences on these issues so how do immigrants succeed in the Norwegian labor market there’s a large number of studies from Western countries
That have shown that non-western immigrants face considerable problems when trying to enter the labor market or barriers and immigrants is also a large and heterogeneous group that have come to Norway for many different reasons there’s labor markets labor immigrants for instance who have come here to work and then there’s irregular migrants who
Are situated here but actually do not have the rights or permits to stay or to work or even to access welfare benefits and then there’s also refugees or immigrants with a refugee background so when we talk about labor market inte integration or how the Norwegian labor market is experienced by
Immigrants these group groups different in many ways so to provide a little bit more specific insights uh and try to also connect it to the stories that I will try to tell I will focus mostly on what we know about refugees and labor market integration firstly the employment of refugees is actually signifant
Significantly lower than other immigrant groups groups and also secondly we know that Refugee women’s employment rates are particularly low uh there’s actually an region study from 2017 that found that while 80 80% of female migrant workers from EU countries um are working or were employed compared to only
46% of female refugees and if we look at the literature it points to several different explanations uh for this low employment rate there’s discrimination low levels of Education or education which is not acknowledged in the Norwegian system uh or education that is not demanded uh or qualifications that are
Not demanded in our way there’s also health related challenges H and also family obligations that are highlighted but there is something that is uh quite interesting and particular for Norway um we know that there’s an increase in employment rate the first five five six seven years after my
Immigrants arrival uh but after these first five six seven years the employment rate not only stagnates but it actually goes into reverse and this is actually a pattern that contradicts other studies from European countries uh and it seems like this is a uh these Tendencies are very specific to
Norway so what could be the reasons for such patterns and there’s of course many and several and many folded explanations for this uh first of all of course fluctuations in the labor market have an impact uh but also there is um there’s pointed to several resources uh to success in the Norwegian
Labor market that also makes refugees particularly vulnerable both compared to natives but also to other immigrant groups um and this low employment rate usually connects not only to the ability to enter the labor market but also the prospects of being being able to stay in the labor market
And this indicates that even though quick labor market introduction is important there’s also so um great importance connected to the ability and competence to acquire high quality jobs because this would also mean that you that refugees would get a solid foothold in the labor market and this is actually a challenge
For refugees that has low formal competence in a highly formalized labor market like the Norwegian with strict competence requirements so therefore uh as we know integration policies often focus on immigrants on increasing immigrants formal competence so and language uh sufficiency so that they could fit the Regan labor markets better but is that
Enough will immigrants or refugees succeed in the Norwegian labor market if we make their qualifications fit our formalized labor market and in this in this lecture I will try to give attention to one specific structural barrier that I may that I believe make it even more difficult for IM immigrants to enter and
Stay in the labor market and as I’ve already mentioned we know that the picture of immigrant labor market integration is complex it’s manifolded uh and both lack of Education language insufficiency um health issues are barriers that complicate immigrants Pathways but I would like to dive into one specifical specific structural barrier um actually
Today one of the major findings in the study that I conducted among refugees in Norway was experiences of discrimination and I must admit that I was kind of surprised actually not because I don’t think that it existed in the Norwegian labor market there is an extensive amount of research
Uh confirming that it’s highly prevalent in Norway uh but I was surprised because I never asked anyone if they had experiences of discrimination I simply asked how had they experienced the Norwegian labor market so far and still one of the most prominent experiences that actually shaped their thoughts and ideas about their
Opportunities in the Norwegian labor market was stories of discrimination the findings in my study showed that discrimination was part of the migration experiences for most participants in the study and this was um highlighted through stories of verbal attacks um skepticism and hostility based on their ethnic or religious
Appearances and also several of the refugees had identities that may them potentially targets for discrimination for several reasons if for example uh you were Muslim a woman and an immigrant you had you were vulnerable uh for for being subjected to uh discrimination to a greater extent even though I have studied law in
My own country it is not so important for Norway I think because when I tell Norwegians that I have studied law and I used to work as a lawyer and I am a refugee they asked me is it that easy to work and study in your country but it’s not
Easy when I was 17 years old I had been in Norway for around 2 years and I was going to a job interview I was wearing traditional East African country clothes a long black dress it was an Oran man that drove me to the interview and he
Asked me are you going to a job interview dressed like that you’re never going to get that job I was really surprised and I said he was wrong but when I arrived to the interview a lady opened the door looked at me and said that the job was already
Taken this is actually a quote um that happened when I was uh doing participant observation uh where there was um participants the participants in uh a group setting were um immigrant women and this was the translator so um there was a discussion going on about experiences in the labor market and the
Translator actually stepped out of her role as a translator uh and told this story to all the women that was sitting there and as she said this she looked out on that group of women and um most of them were wearing a hijab and she
Said so if you want to get a job you have to dress like this and pointing to her own now Western looking clothes they say in Norway that here everyone can dress the way they want to but then they also must accept that I choose to dress like This although many uh told stories of discrimination their experiences was also interpreted and perceived very differently by the various informants and the main finding um in this study was that the individual resources that the immigrants had influenced their ability to overcome structural constraints for instance uh the ones
That had low formal skills but also struggled with the language experienced discrimination as an over un overom unoversity handle the language better were had higher levels of language sufficiency they did not necessarily lose their hope and that they were able to be given opportunities in the labor
Market but instead they chose to aim lower uh so that they did they didn’t they did no longer aim for jobs that match their qualific qualification skills uh but they search in other lower segments of the labor market so it had an impact but they had uh they just responded to it differently
And which was very strongly connected to the individual resources they had but this is of course findings from only one study uh with a limited number of informants and it actually was not aiming at um uh measuring the prevalence of discrimination um but we’re aiming to look at how experience of discrimination
Affected their aspirations or their uh thoughts and ideas and dreams of their opportunities in the labor market so so to understand better if this coincide with findings that we know from other studies um we could go through the literature and see what other studies which actually measure the prevalence of discrimination have
Found and there’s an extensive amount of literature both in the European context but also in Norway um that has been particularly looking at um discrimination uh to understand better how immigrants access and Mobility opportunities are within the labor market uh and Recent research uh is very um yeah it unequivocally demonstrates
Its very high prevalence uh and which uh gives ethnic minorities a significantly lower chance of finding employment compared to the majority population for instance there’s a higher hiring discrimination which was conducted in Germany the Netherlands uh Norway Spain in the UK H and they found substantially fewer callbacks for members of minority
Populations specifically in the Netherlands the UK and Norway there’s another study uh which compared 36 resents resumes and cover letters with a Pakistani name and a Norwegian name and they found that applicants with a Norwegian name had 25% higher chances of receiving uh a call back than applicants
With a Pakistani name and that was despite they had equal qualifications so this aligns with other uh studies uh that show that in Norway there is an extensive um um ethnic discrimination in the labor market and also there’s found that from the employer side um that they are more
Skeptical uh and they favor applicants from the majority population and that actually also affects um children of immigrant uh parents because there there’s a name-based discrimination that are found in the Norwegian context and it demonstrates how negative attitudes towards minority groups actually affect affects and shapes their opportunities
In the labor market there is several studies showing that hostility Prejudice and negative attitudes specifically against Muslims are an increasing challenge both in Norway but also in other European contexts and in addition regardless of their ethnicity there seem to be then as these studies show that there is an
Strong penalties for Muslim Muslims on their employment opportunities so what could be the consequences sorry what could be the consequences of the patterns pattern that I just presented we know that for instance um migrants and also refugees in particular they’re also a lot more vulnerable to insecure
Jobs uh and also jobs in more insecure segments of the labor market um and they’re limited uh by V various barriers um and this is also consistent with studies that we found in a region context which shows that immigrants are often over represented in um segments of the Market them more
Insecure which is characterized by also fewer opportunities for uh Mobility but also skills development I want you to become a little bit more familiar with one of the participants uh in the study that I conducted and I will call him serat which is of course not his real name um
You might recognize him from one of the quotes that I showed earlier uh but he has a master’s degree in law from his home country uh and Sarah did not grow up in a wealthy family uh so he had actually made his way to uh the top study by getting scholarships this means
That he has scored extremely high in national uh tests and also received scholarships on all levels uh which means that he’s extremely academically uh qualified uh in this study I followed him uh for three years I interviewed him three times the first uh time I interviewed
Him uh he was still in the Norwegian introduction program um he had been here for one year uh and he spoke almost fluently Norwegian uh it was never an issue conducting the uh interview in Norwegian he had started immediately when he was in an asylum Center Googling on YouTube
And trying to learn a region so he he has been of all I’ve interviewed in also other settings he’s been one of the ones that I met that really have um been able to learn the Rian language really quickly uh a quote that I’m going to
Read for you now H is from when I talked to Sarah the second time and at this point he had completed the Norwegian introduction program he had also started a new Masters at a origan university if you might remember from the last quote he was the one that said uh that he
Didn’t believe that um uh people experienced his uh education to be sort of valid so he thought I need to have a master’s degree from a Norwegian University because then they will see that I’m qualified so he had started and he got into a master’s program at nor
Regian University but he also at this point started to kind of lose faith and his chances of actually being able to um to compete in the Norwegian labor market he didn’t think that anyone would choose him afterwards because everyone else in his class were born and raised in
Norway and this he said was the ones that he had to compete with for the same jobs afterwards he had also had many friends who were highly educated like him but after many years in our way there had still not been able to get a job and
Many of these friends had started to work for fedora I guess many of you know Fedora they’re very visible uh with their pink um outfits and hug huge backpacks and on bikes delivering food uh and in my study I have used Fedora as an example of a particular
Segment of the labor market um because Fedora is not an unusual career path or choice of jobs in the beginning at least for refugees although we know that there’s uh many uh ethnic Norwegians who work for Fedora there’s also a large proportion of workers that are migrants so back to
Satat he’s now losing his faith in his opportunities within the Norwegian labor market and he has many friends who work for Fedora at this point he’s still also very skeptical of choosing to go and start working for Fedora remember he’s still in the Masters program I have many friends to work for
Fedora they are refugees like me and they say they need more drivers so I think that if I don’t get a job I’ll just work for Fedora so you kind of have it as a backup plan yes but also I also know that when you work there you just
Drive and deliver food you don’t speak Norwegian you don’t speak anything some of my friends had passed B1 now they can’t even do A2 so it’s a good job for the economy but because they earn quite well but very bad for language integration a network because there you
Work alone all the time yes just driving just asking at the restaurant is the food ready and you’re welcome so my concern for the future are am I going to find a job where I have a good Network and community that I can be a part of am
I going to be integrated into society or will I just have a network with country of origin friends and stay in some kind of ghetto when I meet Sarah the third time he has changed his name now his name is no longer serat his name is
Tio he has done this actively to try to increase his chances in the Norwegian labor market he’s also dropped out of master’s program and started an online course in programming because he’s heard it’s easier to get a job in the IT industry additionally he has started to work for
Fedora but he also makes it very clear that it’s only a temporary solution for him because he has seen what has done to his friends for many years I have so many friends who worked for Fedora for a long time and they started not to speak Norwegian their
Level of Norwegian is declining they never speak Norwegian and since they do not have a job at a company or a school within a Norwegian working environment they do not have a network neither on Norwegian nor an international Network so their network is very limited to their ethnic group they make money but
Don’t know the language and they have a very limited Community unable to create a network so if you’re thinking about a very long-term Fedora job this is not so wise if you want to be integrated additionally we know from other studies that many who starts working in these types of jobs usually
Stay in the jobs much longer than they initially expect so to sum up satat is included in the labor market which from a policy perspective makes them self-sufficient and thus successfully integrated into the labor market however he still lacks opportunity to develop a social network he lacks Arenas that would
Actually help him keep up and develop his language skills all in which could limit his opportunities in other segments of the labor market and from the perspectives of s’s friend who’s worked there for a long time and knowing that the Norwegian labor market upholds requirements of uh
Of a B2 language level for also low skilled jobs jobs like these actually makes it less likely that they could get other jobs you might wonder what in the world this has to do with social sustainability but I think it actually does and I will share some final
Reflections trying to explain why I think it has to do has to do something with social sustainability and first of all there’s um different ways of understanding social sustainability and today I will only go into uh some um some perspectives uh one uh particular perspective is found in Eisenberg and
Jabberin um paper called social sustainability a new conceptual framework and they actually emphasize risk as a fundamental element of social sustainability and they do that because they uh argue that different conditions and uncertainties that are connected to risks pose threats to contemporary societies and that means that uh the
Social sustainability of a society would be also marked then by its response to such uncertainties and it also it’s marked by its ability to counter such risks for instance often uh particularly since 2015 2016 um we have talked about a migration crisis and if we perceive this migration
Crisis as a risk to contemporary societies because it’s embedding uncertainties then the indication of a socially sustainable societ could be explored through its response and ability to counter and adapt to new circumstances in ways that makes such develop developments not pose a threat to society integration processes are often
Considered a two-way process which indicates that also the broader Society is transformed and also needs to respond to changes like increased immigration and if we do take increased immigration and the migration or Refugee crisis as represent representations of changes in the Norwegian Society the social sustainability of the
Norwegian Society then then would depend on its ability to respond and transform itself to changes like this however I do not believe that a socially sustainable Society is fostered if we merely focus on changing the individual skills to fit the Norwegian labor market while simultaneously lacking the the ability to challenge the
Structural and uh contextual conditions that keep individuals excluded Keeping Up structures for instance that condition and relegate refugees to only specific SE labor market segments is not socially sustainable also the knowledge of the WID spread prevalence and discrimination shows that the Norwegian Society is not yet able to manage
Diversity also the unreasonably High requirements utterly inhibit refugees from entering the labor market also um refugees or increased uh immigration is of often posed as a threat to the Norwegian welfare model and the Norwegian Welfare Society so if we say that the for State depends on higher labor market participation among Refugee population
In that case if that’s the truth then there’s also the need for a collective willingness to Encompass and tolerate the new and diverse Society also on a structural level if not I would argue that our society do not respond and act on increased immigration in ways that Foster a socially sustainable future for
All for all which includes immigrants and by that I retain the question of the title of this lecture the Norwegian labor market for immigrants is it sustainable thank [Applause] you thank you very much I will H talk about my path to leadership in 2006 I was living in
Sandan h it’s 5 hours from here after fleeing from Burundi Bui is a country in East Africa H it was very difficult time for me because I had uh yeah I I was alone I have lost everything I had it was new culture new language new people it was
Very difficult for me but I had um High Ambitions I had heard that in Norway you can be whatever you want that they had um a king who was very very nice so you could studies so you could study what you want it was very nice
Good for me because I wanted to to study to contribute to society H but every um everyone said to me it is even difficult for Norwegian to study you have to take a cleaning job or work as an assistant at nursing home for me it was very difficult I was very
Depressed it was not what I wanted yeah it’s very nice to clean to work everywhere we want but I had I wanted something else so we have uh heard uh already that um a Minority have many challenges they are they were as they are as to lowering Ambitions they expect very from us especially if you are coming from Africa from Burundi and you are a woman like me so it is very diff it’s very important to focus on resources H but not deficiencies H
Because uh it to is empowerment many byr bring with them a l of knowledge and expertise that is very important to the society my name is Francine and ban I have a master in social science I am a leader for empo in Chen spe Mission Bergen and we offer it’s EMP it’s h
Empowerment to use empowerment as method and um Gore ER we have many activities for women and men from different countries it’s very nice H I am also a founder of Unis Spark It’s a caterist for entrepreneurs with M CA backgrounds we have now a mentor program we have courses we have many
Activities I have also created Kira uh K Kira is a Norwegian superhero Norwegian burundian superhero with ability to sense vulnerable individuals who need help or someone to talk to I created Kira in pandemi it was very nice I did it because we need roal models H we need the diversity in the representation
Everywhere in books on TV everywhere and stories mothers um it is very important that we don’t uh we also see superheroes who are black not only white so um it’s a we have heard that ER you can it’s not difficult to be to go to be in the
Victim Ro or when we have many problems when you don’t get job but H for me it was a I decided very to take responsibility for my own life I said to me you have to work hard I um I was very lucky I’m lucky every day I met good people who H
Believed in me and motivated me to pursue a education H what I learned that it’s we don’t need to give up it was very difficult after I finished my bachelor degree it was very difficult to get a job I I maybe sent 3 200 applications without even an interview it was very difficult
But I decided I will not give up uh I know that already I met many people every day um I know that it can be difficult for many to succeed to to succeed H recently I spoke with a talented man with two Master master’s degree from University of Bergen
Um and he has a long career from uh his home country he’s very he’s very smart man but he has sent H many applications without getting a single interview uh now he has lost hope he’s depressed and yeah it’s very difficult for me for him it’s not only him it’s
Many yeah I know many of them yeah H what on it’s we have to claim space I do claim space every day because my knowledge is very important as well yeah you have said already already that it’s difficult for migrant to find jobs um yeah comparing to the rest of the uh population
H especially if you are coming from Africa or Asia it’s yeah it’s very difficult but migrant H can be good leaders Founders and they can be great employees as well what it’s very important to make Network even if it’s it can be difficult with if you don’t have a job or friends
But we have to to yeah it’s very important Network can be a valuable resource for migrant to access jobs opportunity or career advancment for example me I pr I prioritize time to for a coffee a shat with Skol leaders for inspiration or opportunities H it’s very important because without
Network one can not go far we need a hayang I don’t think it’s work hard we need to work extra hard um and sometime some of uh some of us need to work twice as much as they as the rest in order to succeed we need to work maybe not only twice
Maybe um I work 24 hours every day not but it’s very important to work very hard and it’s is important with ambitions and passions it’s um it’s a low to dream I dream every day I say I can be whatever I want but I have to work
Hard it’s a ro to be hungry as well you have to say I have to make it one day it’s not um yeah even if it’s it’s easy to lose hope we have to dream a lot and never give up I fa H every day and I learn from
It h that is very important not giving up it’s a when you have sent 500 CV and app it’s she can easily give up and after 10 years or 20 years in our way without job it can be a bit difficult for many and we need a engagements uh you
Have to join others and take social social responsibilities ER you can uh you can choose to to help others there are so many organizations you can who needs uh um or knowledge and competence like sh Mission or others organizations in Bergen so there are so many
Possibilities and uh we have to use H your voices we need diversity on stage H because or perspectives are very important uh yeah that is very important and um H for example me I get support from everybody I am so lucky I have that as I have said H I have also
To contribute back to the society to community h i I like to promote for example diversity and inclusion in businesses that’s why I started Unity spark because I know that many migrants are very good Founders so they have a lot of things they can offer to the
Community and it’s important to have a mentor who can um I was lucky I was in bargain opportunity barging Ro I got a good Mentor uh who could who was not to give me advices and now I am also in m in unity Mentor program in unity spark
So it’s it’s very good to have a mentor and what I have learned in Norway um it’s not difficult to actually to to ask people for example in bu you can not um uh take contact with for example a professor and they cannot answer but here in Norway just use LinkedIn hi I
Like what you do can you be my mentor the almost everyone say yes I would like to be a mentor we have a almost 40 mentors in our program H we asked 402 maybe 40 said yes so there are so many posibilities even if we it’s are so many challenges we have to
Yes so because of what I have done H I got some awards uh poor Harris for example fah from uh uh rotary Foundation International Foundation I I was also one of 100 H women uh of City H I also was nominated to to to hold the annual leure in November
Last year at vid campus Oslo it was very nice I was the first to do it and it was the the team was a h diversity uh in December as December 2003 I also got a diversity award from B Community I’m very glad for that so what I say it’s very difficult
You know that and we have to an knowledge the barriers that minority groups face due to discrimination or other system systemic structure in society H many of them are seen as poor individuals who just need help but in reality they are strong women and men who have incred incredible
Knowledge they can offer a lot to the to the community everyone has something valuable to contribute to society if I can do it then everyone can do it because diversity is very yeah it’s it’s strength and it’s very important thank you for the attention [Applause]