Okay folks so hopefully everyone can see the uh presentation deck um yes thanks for introduction juletta so yeah Peter I’m the general manager of Nas and the first thing you’ll notice on my starting screen it doesn’t say nias it says Amic so uh I want to give an introduction at
The very start to Amic which is our new center uh just for a few minutes before I get into uh biocomposite so iic Advanced manufacturing and Innovation Center it’s part of what we have in Northern Ireland and the UK called City Deals and this is uh once in
A generation investment into a region in the UK uh to uh accelerate economic growth in that region for industry in an in an inclusive and suain stainable way in total there’s a billion pound investment over 10 years uh into the Belfast region City day and that comes into five
Different centers uh there’s two in healthcare one in digital film uh one in cyber Technologies and the fifth one is Advanced manufacturing which is um just ourselves so it’s quite a lot of money over the next uh 10 years what that means for us is well nias we’ve been
Here for 10 years 12 years apologies um 10 years and Nas traditionally was a center where uh the two schools from one from uler University and the school of mechanical narrow from Queens University would work with industry in an environment to under Tech R&D what we
Have Amic now coming through is a new center uh it’s not to replace that University engagement it’s to supplement that uh we will be based over two centers uh the one on the right hand side existing where I’m sitting right now with beautiful views over over
Belfast Lu uh and that’s going to be the nias center and you our focus in uh our focus is going to be on composite manufacturing material characterization we’re part of the Net Zero Park in Belfast Harbor uh which means if we’re going to have green technologies let’s say green fuel
Sources such as a hydrogen blend coming into car factories it’s probably going to come into this area first so we’re very well located um we are a partnership between Queens univers univers and Al University and we also work very closely with the national competence Center in Bristol as well as
The wider hbmc so Center exists Today part of that City Dale is also going to create a new Factory of the future very original name uh Factory of the future is going to be a 10,000 square meter facility just on the outskirts of Belfast with the focus on prototyping verification digital phonics everything
That’s basically not Composites and polymers uh our focus is going to be trl4 3D six it’s not the discovery of new technologies it’s about applying those Technologies in an industrial setting and drisking those and we will work very closely with the two universities and other universities in Amic Pipeline and that’s about
Developing those new technologies and pulling them through and also we’ll identify challenges which is not for us to answer they’re too immature and we’ll we’ll we’ll move uh and move the Technologies through to the universities uh to do more fundamental research to develop them and SK SKS will be a big
Part of what we do as well so working together with the universities um will be critical in developing curriculums uh so Amic is going be broken into to four different areas first of all smart design uh we then have digital smart Nano smart Nano being photonics so we make both it’s the third
Or half of the world’s uh computer chip readers in in Northern Ireland company called seate um and then sustainable Composites and polymers um if we look our membership base here we have Spirit AOS systems we have colum Aerospace we have Talis defense we have some big players in in composite uh and
Polymers so that’s the the four areas which we will focus in aramic offer it’s by the risking Innovation uh and new technology and product introduction um giving people giving companies access to equipment which they need uh to develop technology work within the UK and Republic of Ireland ecosystem to develop that world-class
Capability um and also the last thing is very important is about test betting Technologies it’s not just developing them and leaving Lear a report it’s about living and breathing the Technologies in a system and uh being able to adapt that system to Industrial uh scenarios our strategic thingses uh very
Sustainable focused so low carbon resilient secure supply chain clusters and that’s where the biom materials starts to come into that compression of new product introduction Cycles um I look back at herbot a220 and we really started the development of the res transfer and fusion Technologies well back in the 90s but specifically onto
The wing program was around 2007 2008 and that took seven years to bring that into uh first product cycle in 2013 2014 so how do we compress that using digital twins how do we do uh how do we how to do conceptual design faster because more constraints now not just
Looking design for manufacturer and design for cost we’re not looking for design for sustainability design for recyclability um so there’s a lot more uh influencers which we need to bring into conceptual design face so how do we do that faster and then hydrogen is a big theme here in
Northern Ireland in particular we have a lot of wind power we produce more wind power at nighttime that what we need to uh sustain our nighttime demand so we have a surplus so you either turn the the wind turbines off or you store up that uh that wind power in the form of
Hydrogen and then bring it down and par par our our transport sector and that’s already being done with some of our bus Network here in Belfast so looking specific Composites so uh we’ve been working very closely the joys of being a new center uh we can start from scratch we don’t have any
Baggage to bring with us so we’ve done extensive Road mapping with our Northern Ireland companies see what are their requirements for the future what’s their drivers uh and what type of technologies will they need to invest in if you germ where will they need our help uh but we
Also looked at that on the UK landscape so look going to take what technologies will we use to satisfy local companies but also where do we sit within the UK landscape and further Beyond as well hoping to have some Niche capabilities um to complement the wider high value manufacturing catapult centers in the
UK so we set a lot on on these six main themes down the right hand side I’m not going to go into them too much what’s important is that cross cutting across those is two themes first one is digital engineering digital is everywhere it needs to be in everything that we do
Every new machine which we bring in every technology we need to start creating those digital uh digital Footprints and data capture those birth certificates we need to understand everything that’s going on with our process and use digital for that and sustainability sustainability is everywhere that’s what I’m going to talk
About a little bit more so Consciousness is a Consciousness is a EOP Plastics committee um where does uh where do you sit so I’m get a little bit of feedback of someone’s uh microphone there if you turn it on to mute so um this is going to be a a broad
Sweep introduction to biomaterials is there a biomaterial thermoplastic solution for Aerospace today no no there’s not but there’s quite a I say it’s a trl4 technology we know a lot about it but how do we apply this now into in into production within different sectors so sustainable composite very strong theme within Amic
Composites so we have a bio composit Focus which I’m going to talk about today using this we need to develop technology using carbon negative natural materials as a feed stock and or lightweight low Ed carbon recyclable Composites we also have a focus on circular economy so that’s for
Thermostat Composites that could be with turbines it could be uh aircraft Wings skins and spars um recycling of thermoplastic injection molded product or continuous thermoplastic products and uh reuse of Aerospace dry fiber we have a large source of dry fiber waste uh in Belfast from from the Airbus factoring and
Factory test bed I mentioned about replacing natural gas with hydrogen you we’re a perfect Center uh to look at test bedding that and then sharing our learnings with industry so why is why is this important why are we even talking about biom materials what’s changed there was a lot
Of work done five four years ago and 5 years ago now in 2018 looked at you know potential uses for natural fiber comp and they’re actually quite limited because at the time everyone was thinking about multimaterial systems how do we lightweight a product nobody was thinking about very few companies were
Thinking about sustainability what do you do at the end of life and what’s the carbon footprint of uh the product few things have changed since then uh public perception of the importance of carbon footprint of the environment but that’s mainly manifest in through government legislation so in
The UK the drive to be Net Zero by 2050 now sunic Ric might change that soon I don’t know because it is a very ambitious Target but it’s a Target nonse so if we look at the UK uh we follow down the light green path let me see my cursor that is the
That’s the current Trend sorry that’s the the historical uh Trends uh since 1990 up to 2020 so there has been a reduction not dark green is if we do nothing okay but if we want to stay on track the purple line is what we need to
Do okay so we look at domestic is about 27% of that industry uh 37% and transport is 36 so we think about the the transportation or vles going about and also then how do we build those vles um how do we generate our wind using wind turbines ironic that we we make
Them using non-recyclable materials um and how do we build our homes today um we use a lot of concrete and concrete is very uh carbon intensive process I look specifically now into Northern Ireland our carbon emissions Northern Ireland where do they come from so and this is a big driver for biomaterials um
The first one is actually agriculture we have one of the highest uh CO2 outputs for agriculture certainly in the UK possibly in Europe that is driven by the fact that we have a lot of cattle farming we have a lot of beef we have a lot of lamb we have a lot
Of dairy and uh animals create a lot of gases and those gases go into the atmosphere and contribute to uh our CO2 emissions and our farming industry is actually under threat from uh particular EU legislation and UK legislation do something about it or we’ll have to cut
Back and uh the amount of farming which we do which is like huge threat for us because that’s one of our biggest industries then we also look at transport sector you Tex a drop down it’s the second biggest contributor and then we also have buildings so building buildings and and our buildings and
Environment um business and Industrial it’s the same and energy the reason I pulled this up is that when we look at composites on we look at our manufacturing sectors if we look at that in isolation we can only solve one part of the problem uh there’s actually many problems which
We can solve together so that what we’ve been looking at is working with other sectors not just Composites but with textiles with energy with farming to look at this as a bigger problem that we are part of the solution of so we want to decarbonize two strategies currently
Within manufacturing sector first one is the amortizer embedded carbon a true circular economy so you take the hit once you manufacture you bring materials in that you manufacture them they’re materials and the parts and manufactur with the dirty process uh and then you put them through their the their their
Inservice life traditionally they go to the scrapyard and you go back to the start again just go and you’re constantly uh bringing in new materials uh and taking a large CO2 one of the strategies is to look at end of of life so recycling so from a carbon footprint
Perspective yes she got a large hit here uh but then you bring that into waste collection you can reclaim it uh you can bring out the fiber and resin and we’ve got processes to do that you got solsis uh pyrolysis and then new processes like press olysis which is decom process uh
Using pressurized steam what it can do in theory um it’s being proven out at the minute is it strips the resin back to the monomer so the fiber is left pretty much untouched um it’s not damaged from what they’ve found in their their research and their development and
You recover the resin the process breaks the resins down into the monomer level what they’ve discovered now is there might be something they can do with that sludge because the sludge that comes off this is full of monomers so how can we put those back into resin systems again
You then take those fiber potentially in the future of the resin reconcentrate material um and then put it back into a new manufactur ing process back into service and goes through this several times so you’re amortising the the carbon footprint of the initial manufacturing over several Cycles um so
That has an effect of reducing the carbon footprint that’s one strategy but as every time you do this process you need energy in this process so it is not going to solve the problem second strategy then is to grow your materials and not manufacture them so I use the example of hemp in
This case so industrial hemp and it’s been around for centuries we used to be in Belfast in Northern Ireland uh a world center of excellence for seals and ropes um for for the maritime industry that’s what we were known for um in the 1960s it started to degrade off
Uh especially with the uh the growth of cannabis and cannaboid coming through legislation and a large misconception between the difference between cannabis and Industrial Hemp they’re two they’re the same family they have the same name but they’re actually very different products one has t THC the other does
Not uh when you grow it we also have flax and J but whenever we grow a hectar of of hemp industry hemp we sequester 22 tons of CO2 so we’re taking CO2 out of the air forget about all these uh big complex carbon inversion systems um which cost hundreds of millions uh may
Or may not work to take carbon out of the air just grow biom materials and we can solve this problem um in terms of the scale of decarbonization the if we I think the figures are right if we grew Industrial Hemp on 21% of our free land which we have
Available so available lands in Northern Ireland we can decarbonize uh the entire agricultural industry just by growing hemp on one fifth of the land which we have and then there’s lots of things which we can do with That so look at that natural fiber supply chain what does that what does that look like what what what does a fiber supply chain look like in an environment what do we need to build well it starts off with the farming side about seed selection there’s not one type of of
Hemp or flax seed there’s tens of thousands and we can not genetically modify but gen genetically select those for our soils and our climates uh we have the plant growth phas harvesting and then reading and reading is actually very important on the fiber poity uh which we get out reading basically you
Wet the plant and you you let the let nature break the plant down which allows you to strip the fiber out uh from the rest of the the herd which we don’t need but that reading has a big effect on the fiber properties which we’re trying to
Establish at the minute we want fiber out of this then we need to go through thing called decortication that basally breaks it down it’s a it’s a in centuries in the past they would have had big beating Hammers and and sticks uh to break down the fiber well we’ve
Got plants which can do that we then need to spin the fiber into continuous yarn need to size it and then we need to weave it then we come into the the fabrication side which most of us are probably more familiar with um if we’re going D ther separate you need to design
The part and design it for natural fibers and for biocomposites uh you have pre-forming you have infusion with ideally with a bio resin which is uh also got maturity challenges and then cure or if you’re going down the thermoplastic rot uh that polymer blending and injection molding
There are just two examples we all know that there’s dozens of processes both for thermostat and thermoplastic um and then you have the end use that performance Advantage okay uh can we get a performance Advantage out of natural fiber composits it’s not going to be on strength and stiffness
Not compared to carbon but is there noise attenuation uh vibration dampening there’s a cost Advantage can we make it cheaper than carbon parts or or glass components there’s the LTA Advantage which is the Big Driver for this and then we take that product to Market so when we look at natural fibers
Which we grow I’m really going to focus in on hemp here so flax has about three or four different uses usually it goes into textiles and then it can go into uh we know it’s available for Composites today um obviously linen is made from from flax and that’s a big end use but
We think about hemp hemp has actually a lot more uses so consider both those fibers together um which we can grow in our lands here in Northern Ireland we’re not as good at growing jute we don’t have the right uh environment for it uh but we can go into textiles from
Textiles we can make fabrics for composite or we can make clothing we can make seaing uh we can go into low carbon footprint bio Composites we can use it as a filler with an injection molded uh Composites or injection molded uh thermoplastic uh granules feed stock G with a low carbon footprint they’re
Really the three composite focused areas uh but if we were to just try and solve this problem for composed sector we’re going to have a problem with uh this the we need to have enough critical mass of a supply chain to feed um our composite base especially if we’re going to go
Into a large Automotive supplier or if there is an application in a space somewhere we’re not going to rely on a small volume of Supply so we need to have a critical mass so we need these other areas to come with us and that’s where we’ll also get Innovation so hemp
Creete hemp create uses the uh the herd the shave down the center and that creates mix up with l and you get one of the most thermally efficient concrete available today that also absorbs CO2 uh as as it cures over 30 years uh biochar is quite interesting biochars where you’re basically
Charcoaling the the plant and the fiber and the shave and that can be used for fertilizer but potentially there’s a use for that to to go into things like graphing basically you’re creating a carbon uh carbon structure um potentially use that in graphine which could then supplement material uh
Performance or go into things like Battery Technology we have biomass which is maybe the parts of the plant which you don’t use the 10% waste can go into biomass which can go into energy plant’s also a source of ligant and cellulose and a lot of research at the
Minute into how we use liant and cellulose um can we use this plant as this the base stock materal material for bior resent um then we also look at the other benefits so it’s a local economic benefit um so for any region that’s going to adopt this adopt biom materials
As a supply chain and end users that’s a lot of income stream coming into probably quite diverse areas that are struggling into our more rural areas and the other things is biodiversity uh when we think about Industrial Hemp uh it it actually contributes into the soil so it
Locks in the nitrogen it it breaks up the soil and whenever you introduce that as part of a cycle within growing in agriculture you especially with potatoes apparently from speaking to hemp Farmers when they grow potatoes and hemp back to back the hemp is better quality after
The potato cycle and the potato cycle is better after the hemp cycle so there’s a lot of biodiversity uh benefits for the soil which is why farmers want to grow here so when we talking about natural fiber composits we’ve tried to break it into four areas because they all have
Their different challenges first one’s Artisan Composites so this is a this is more your artistic uh type Composites could be your nice bathtubs for um eco-friendly hotels it’s low volume it’s high value it looks great we don’t need mechanical performance there uh we can leave some of the we don’t need to have
A clean fiber because that rustic look looks great um we’re doing this today there’s companies doing this second one’s semi-structural so we’re talking about gfrp replacement now this is more your uh your short fiber your half inch uh glass fiber not continuous things like your bathtubs and your standard
Gfrp which you see is designed to say right we need four mil and that’s about the level of design that’s needed into it or we just need you know for ply um it’s medium volume it’s a load to medium value you don’t really need uh consistent properties of the product um
But you do need stable Supply chains so that’s the secondary the third one is engineered Composites uh we’re talking about where companies are going to design a product uh using FAA uh using no material data sets and data cards and for that it’s high volume it’s probably medium value we’re
Thinking about error space here in particular um but we need full mechanical data sets needs to be a low cost we need to have significant supply chain stability um and we probably need an optimize supply chain there as well we also need spinning capability which
We do not have in the UK and the fourth area then is in the polymeric composite which is haven’t seen too much in this um the volume is driven by n juice it can be low performance it can be used as a filler but there’s a potential there
To replace glass in certain scenarios uh with an injection molding then thermoplastic composite continuous there’s um other areas um which could be developed uh using bio composits so what are we doing in this area we got con got five minutes left so first thing we did was we actually brought together the
Community a a conversation started just over a year ago where I have been out with our companies Fabrica fabricators of Composites who were telling me they want to make bio Composites but they don’t have a supply chain but they’ve got the end applications and the next day I was with
A representative from the farming Community who said they want to Farmers want to grow biocomposites but they don’t have an end use and I told him the story where i’ been and said very nice to meet you I think we can solve this problem together so we start by creating a
Special interest group in Northern Ireland that’s evolving constantly uh but what we have is lots of pockets of uh of the the supply chain whether it’s from farming weaving capabilities Fabricators end users uh all working in little pockets and isolation from each other and they all want to collaborate
Because they see the bigger picture here uh we managed to bring them together into a special interest group so everyone now knows everybody and we’re going to tackle this as a a a regional ecosystem system and spreading into Mainland UK and into the Republic of Ireland as well so we’ve been looking at
Developing that Supply Cham um also with things like legislation so working with the legislative bodies to um make sure that we can have some freedom to do what we need to do for example if you want to grow seeds you can’t do that in Northern
AR the minutes at some point you will um secondary is we processing fabrication so enhancing the material performance through bio engineering and process optimization there’s short-term goals and there’s long-term goals there at the shortterm how do we just process bio Composites uh how do we process natural
Fibers with bio resins there’s quirks in there um nuances which we need to overcome one that I’ve discovered this week is how do we establish fiber FOID content on a natural fiber composite traditionally we take a carbon fiber and epoxy you put it through TGA and you get
The the resin Burns off and leaves the fiber and you calculate the volume that works well whenever carbon burns with th000 degre plus but whenever your fiber Burns at the same temperature as your resin system we’ve now got a technology Gap um also looking at Material format development and collaboration with other
Centers of excellence so how do we take this into uh sheet molding compound how we take this into thermoplastics into injection molding uh we’re looking at end just applications want to demonstrate products measure the life cycle analysis of products um create reliable mechanical data sets that doesn’t exist at the moment we do
Not have a single baselined uh mechanical data set back to back where we can compare carbon glass and all the different types of natural fibers that’s something we’re we’re addressing this year design for sustainability and looking at cost as well but then we have the challenge of end of life doesn’t
Make sense to recycle natural fiber Composites that have a large negative CO2 hit if you’re just counting CO2 it doesn’t but do we still want to landf these products so we’re looking at what are those end of Life Strategies and not just within compos how does it complement into energy into uh agricultural
Sector so last slide uh collaboration is key to grow this sector and optimize the product for manufacturing we’re looking Global collaborations yes we’re research base we work together but we all know that everybody competes everybody competes globally uh for the the slice of the pie in research and development but we’re
Looking for Global collaborations because biomaterials do not travel the reason for using biomaterials is primarily to get your carbon footprint down doesn’t make sense if you then put it on a ship uh and ship it 12,000 miles around the globe you lose that opportunity uh so we need to create
Centers where we grow sorry parts of the world where we grow biom materials optimized for Composites and we need to collaborate with those areas so for example with Spain with India with Canada with the USA we’re looking for those global collaborations of people who are trying to do the same that we’re
Trying to do so we can all learn at all benefit we need anous applications non-structural and semi-structural applications cross multiple sectors biom materials not going to be naive it is not going to replace carbon fiber in a wing skin um or a wing Spar it’s not going to do that but even
Within Aerospace is there non-structural semi-structural applications non-product applications such as tilling where we could replace this could replace carbon fiber or glass with uh with noof fiber products we’re looking at increased focused funding um for a message number from the UK government in this um but it’s very hard to get focused funding
Which exactly fits this this Challenge and opportunity it’s something we’re trying to to fix I we need scientific research there’s so many new technology gaps which we’re discovering as discovered today with how do we just measure void content and how do measure fiber volume fraction using processes
Which are not designed for the materials which we’re using um there’s so much scientific research to be done um across the Global Research community um so it just brings me to the end and uh pass back to jul if we have time for any questions I don’t know how strict you
Are with your your meeting endings thank you so much for for your presentation and for for coming to to talk in our uh committee meeting so we’ll take maybe one question uh from the audience Roman please go ahead hi Peter thank you very much very interesting uh subject and very
Interesting presentation I also had the chance to visit Nas during iccm it was it was great to see your Center uh my question is uh regarding uh natural fibers with thermoplastics typically thermoplastics require higher temperature to be processed uh how does because I I’m not really aware what’s the maximum temperature fiber can
Sustain and how does that limit their use with thermoplastic and is there any treatment or things that can be done to the fiber to improve their resistance you’ve just given the uh the title of probably several PhD studies that could be done there yes it is a
Challenge if we want to mix it with PPS and Peak we will have a challenge there’s a degradation temperature I’m actually running a trial today on TGA to find on the sample of hemp that we’re using what the exact where that burnoff point is but it is in the new high 100s
200 cel it is in that region so compatibility with something like polypropylene and the low end polymers um I think is feasible p in with Peak into an injection molding process of 400 Degrees CSUS will have huge challenges uh but is there you know that’s what we’re
Here for we’re here to solve problems we’re scientists we’re researchers how can we solve that problem through through treatment um keep in mind you can also use hemp to create biochar which burns a thousand degrees in the absence of oxygen to create basically a charcoal um that is basically a source
Of graphing so if you have a high doping of that within PE what does that enhance the product there’s another there’s another two two or three phds um you know there’s a lot of research here to be done there’s so much um so many challenges but I think today we could
Mix it with lend polymers uh without many problems okay thank you very interesting thank you very much thank you for your question Alberto please go ahead yeah hello Peter thank you very much for your presentation that was fantastic um I just wanted to ask uh when you mention that carbon fiber or
That is unlike that bio composits would replace carbon fiber in an aircraft Etc uh are you within Belfast Nas looking at things like producing that carbon fiber from a biobased precursor such as liin cellulose and then make it into carbon fiber which could be um middle of the road solution for that
More structural application yeah stand your question there Alberto so the using fiber directly no I don’t think that can be done but you’re right using lignan um as a source to Mech carbon fiber there’s been a lot of work done at s University of limr or
UCD um it’s one of the the universities down south have done a lot of work on that so this is where I would turn to oler University to alist Michael Hager and Eddie Archer uh and their team they are looking at that and it would be in collaboration with with other centers
Um to try to understand uh how we can do that I know there’s other centers globally there’s a company in Canada um in the University of Calgary who are using Ash ashtine um byproduct of the bitchman industry uh to create carbon fiber that’s doing something very very
Interesting there um again it’s not bio but it is it’s not using or traditional sources for of materials for carbon yeah thank you thank you and Eric please go ahead hi thank you for the presentation um I I posted a question in the chat as well I I’m very interested in that data
Set you talked about you’re working on comparing natural fibers glass fibers carbon fibers how can I stay in the loop on that to get the results when that is completed yes so we’re doing that that work initially as part of our Amic uh our Amic core projects so that would be
For Access by members of the center um but Happ chat to you um offline if uh if you get my email address somewhere I’ll type it in actually and then everyone has it um if you want to touch b s and we can talk a bit more about that as
Well so sure thank you thank you and on that note with your email would you be okay if uh we include your email in the minutes of the meeting uh if anyone else wants to contact to you okay perfect and we have uh Michael as well please go ahead you raise your
Hand uh yeah a quick question I was wondering if you’re you’ve looked at a BAL fiber reinforcement as a kind of like a replacement for like a glass fiber because I know that’s something that we we’ve looked at and I was just wondering um if you look at that your
Your thoughts on the salt fiber in general yeah we did a study that it was the same time we were looking at the different uh not using lignon for carbon fiber uh Al university did a little bit of work into the bassal side of things Bassel you still need to you’re taking
It from Rock yes it’s a natural source but is it any different from glass which is a natural source um you’re still having to heat it up to 1,000° plus um to Celsius uh to be able to spin it um so is it a sustainable fiber um I don’t know
I haven’t been focused too much it’s not within my scope whenever I’m looking at bio materials I have used it before though in my previous job um I find it be very effective in you compare glass to Bassel we were able to just by changing some of the structure and
Changing some of the materials from glass over to Bassel in certain parts we’re able to double the performance of the product for only a 10% increase in cost um this so it has its uses but it has a supply chain challenges as well um as I think half half the source comes
From Ukraine so it’s it’s a challenge or has been a challenge in the last two years um so it’s something it’s there it was the big promise of being something big and different it sort of hasn’t followed through in the market but it does have its Niche
Applications okay great yeah I was going to say that that’s uh pretty consistent with we we’ve found as well you know it uh it certainly performs you know generally better than like an eass fiber kind of up there with S-Class even but um but yeah supply chain issues are it’s
An issue so yeah at the time I was using I for that application I was a huge fan of it at the time um I just haven’t been looking at applications where those would be where Basel would be relevant um lately okay great well thank you I appreciate
It okay thank you very much so thank you again Peter for H taking the time preparing this presentation uh coming to talk to the members of the T plastic committee um so with that we will wrap this meeting up so thank you so much and
Uh and we’ll meet again uh in about a month so thank you so much