Regions play an important role in the deployment of the bio-based economy in Europe as they can support the establishment of regional innovative value chains. They are also best situated to identify locally available feedstock that can trigger the bio-based economy and make use of regional and local specificities. Regions can foster the necessary support and infrastructure needed to capitalise on local natural resources, regional strength and capabilities.
Moderator:
Conny Czymoch
Keynote address:
Philippe Mangin, Vice-President Grand-Est region, France
Speakers:
Patrick Barrett, Agricultural Inspector – Bioeconomy, Agriculture Knowledge & Innovation System & Agri-Digitalisation, Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Ireland; member of the CBE JU states’ representatives group
Mario Bonaccorso, Director, Italian Circular Bioeconomy Cluster Spring, Founder and journalist, Il Bioeconomista
Astrid Hannes, Policy and Project Manager, European Regions Research and Innovation Network
Katariina Kemppainen, SVP, Group R&D, Metsä Group
Dries Maes, Senior Policy Advisor on the bioeconomy, Flemish Department of Economy, Science and Innovation
Kristina Šermukšnytė-Alešiūnienė, Director, AgriFood Lithuania DIH
So when the Music Stops the moderator comes on and with that it hello and welcome ladies and gentlemen so happy that you’ve come here for our session the third one in the aspect where we cover the market but the first one also where we are going to concentrate on
Something that makes Europe special and that is the regions uh so uh we’re looking also at uh some of the questions from a strategic point of view who has to do what in order to further and bring about the revolution that we all want to fulfill the promises of the green deal
To reduce the European carbon footprint and to ensure the well-being of our people once we have uh Europe as an overarching construct and of course we have the national governments and we have the towns there is that one layer in between that is really important uh in generating changes in Genera ating
Innovation so um the question will also be here on this panel is there a magic formula is there like sort of you know a toolbox that you can access and just sort of stick in and then some magically a flower will develop the flower called
By o uh economy M that is something for the pattern so we have as the beginning just to sort of lay out what we’re going to be doing we have a keynote speaker fantastic I’m going to talk about uh his introduction in one second then we’re
Going to have many people uh on the panel uh many people because Europe of the regions actually is being shown in this session for the first time so many different regions so many different backgrounds and uh then ladies and gentlemen it’s again talking to each
Other as we’ve had it in uh the sessions before and we have Gloria and Matthew who have the microphones and who will then come to you for your questions to us now let me roll out the red carpet for Philip Maan he’s vice president of a French region which I’m not quite sure
If I went through uh the the row here and if I did sort of you know the usual journalistic thing and said do you know which region this is whether everybody would actually know the answer to that um it’s a and Mr M is actually going to
Talk about the gr uh and uh that’s just one of the issues um but uh when I um got into contact with your office Philip I heard Whispers and louder noises that the Gres is a lighthouse a lighthouse of development a lighthouse for the bioeconomy and they actually have a
Beautiful strategy that is called ambition 2030 now that’s a great title and uh before I ask you to come up on stage just a little bit of housekeeping of course we’re in Brussels of course we know that we can speak English and French um however we will provide uh
Consecutive uh uh translations so thank you very much uh for the two interpreters who are here and uh as uh uh Philip uh as you are coming on stage uh just uh two words uh about you you’re a brilliant example of permanent development having started once as a
Farmer and being president of the young Farmers Union then you felt many responsibilities in many different agricultural organization and you’ve been head of many national organizations federations for more than 15 years and now uh you have been the chairman of the invivo group until last year and with
That background I think we have painted a whole picture so now the EST ladies and gentlemen a little Applause [Applause] Please For Not IND development eom dur is prier circular dur pH en let ladies and gentlemen first of all let me tell you how delighted I am here to represent indeed a region that might be indeed a flagship region in what is being done in Greater East l grest l
Grest in the bioeconomy let me first introduce a region L grest greater e this is quite a new region it was a setup back in 2016 it was the merging of Three French regions alzas champag champag Arden and Lauren we have 5.5 million people living in gr EST and this
Is quite an interesting French region of course it in the East but we are the territory the French region with the longest border uh to uh with our neighbors with neighboring countries 760 kilm all together with Belgium Luxembourg Germany and Switzerland and this region has two main features first
Of all we have a strong historical industrial base which was of course hit by the con consequences of dis deindustrialization and we have a traditional strong use of Natural Resources Farms Vineyards forests make up no less than 85% of our territory because of those assets it was quite
Natural that we turned to the industry of the future and the biomass what is the industry of the future that is putting digital the environment and human resources at the heart of industrial production and what is the bioeconomy that is the sustainable phasing out of fossil fuels and turning
Sustainably to bio biomass based Renewables now developing the bioeconomy is precisely what the key players in Gest have been doing for 20 years uh academics very strong involvement of universities and academics business and what we have been doing at the N the regional authorities of Gres is bring
Together all those initiatives that have been going on for a long time with all their commitment and energy into a regional strategy we have developed this Regional strategy towards bioeconomy a first strategy started in 2019 2019 20122 we mobilized 35 million EUR over three years with a leverage
Effect of no less than 500 million public money leverage over five years this led to the emergence of a biosourced circular sustainable economy thus boosting the valorization of photosynthesis based natural resources for example biomass from farming from forestry from household organic waste but we decided to go further the elected
Representatives of grest decided to extend this valorization of this biomass asset to new users turn to food and Feed chemical industry biosourced building materials bioenergies hence we developed this new strategy from n from 20123 developed together by the general Authority and the Regional Chamber of agriculture culture this is critical this is putting
Together Agriculture and the bioeconomy this is a new paradigm this is a new economy and this we called ambition 2030 what is ambition 2030 well this is about having different objectives our objectives is food safety healthy natural resources the development of organic production and of course Regional energy sovereignty this is
About ambition 20 2030 it is is about a hierarchy about what we want to do preserving our resources developing sustainable uses of our resources using short circuit short circuit in uh distribution models and and this is essential with the involvement of women and men of our territories putting the
Citizen at the core of what we’re doing strategy start For for IND Sal e IM AG well what is our strategy ambition 2030 uh what is what we’re doing very tangibly very practically in our territory with the bioeconomy ecosystem there are 400 uh players in this ecosystem uh and 102 startups and they’re everywhere across territory with the strong backr
To become a reference in prod producing and processing biomass what we have is we have the Upstream the knowhow of producers Farmers Forest far Farmers Vine Growers then we have the bio refineries we have seven bio refineries very interesting bi your Refinery you have a number of Industries together
That find point of cooperation the product or the byproduct of one being the main processing product of the other one a very interesting ecosystem very unique we have big name in businesses we have academics and research centers and we have Al also a university curriculum of Excellence let me here mention the
European Center for bioeconomy that transferred schools from Paris to the regions and we have technology transfer and experimental platforms so in an nutshell what we do have here are the three pillars that are decisive for bioeconomy resources indust industry and research so as you can see indeed grest
Has strong assets to become a leading region in the bio economy of the future um but the thing is uh what we’re doing is not just this glamorous Prospect of becoming number one uh it is also very practically about creating jobs and wealth in a region in our
Territory for the people of our region uh it is a true engine for pooling development let make give you figures in 2022 we had 113 113 people working in the bioeconomy this job creation between 2016 and and there was 8% of jobs in the region between 2016 and 2022 job
Creation the number of jobs created in BIO economy was up 5.3% the not the general number of jobs was only up 1.5% so this is three times job creation altoe 62 projects are supported with 10 Millions committed by the general Authority the conditions to get a a support a financial support is the
Setting up or the increase of capacity or the modernization of a production unit with an overall budget higher than 500,000 and the project leader industrial project leader having his seats his location in grest so ladies and gentlemen you can see the the figures speak for themselves the bioeconomy is about a local sustainable
Circular economy fully in line with the aspirations of a time it brings practical tangible immediate alternatives to fossil fuels that is away from coal oil and gas it contributes to sovereignty Regional National European sovereignty and it being it brings tangible benefits to the people of our territories and especially to the rural
Territories sorry going away e org for You know how the saying goes uh alone I am faster but together we go further so this is also true for bioeconomy um we’re also keen on Building Bridges of course we work with other French regions we also want to extend Partnerships to to everyone who would be interested uh
This is why our region grest has applied to the European call for projects European vallees of innovation so we really we want to extend our hand to other region uh yes we want to be leader in BIO economy but we also believe in a Snowball Effect we also Al believe uh
The more we are the stronger we are and we look for economies of scale so we already work with all the French region all the France normandi uh but we now also have partnership with Partners in Poland or also as far as Quebec and precisely in this period together we are
Stronger let me here extend an invitation to all of you to a major event we’re going to organize here in Brussels uh January uh 21st 2024 together with January 25th January 25th 2024 precise date of this event here in Brussels organized under um the chairmanship of the Belgium presidency
Of the European Union The Forum uh Ryan M Rivers green Compact and how can the bioeconomy and renewable resources contribute to uh this green compact there will be key stakeholders at this event coming from politics research and in Innovation from businesses including smmes and clusters it will be about the
Bioeconomy of course and how to boost cooperation with the different uh regions uh around Ry and M in order to stimulate also progress in alternative economies in the EU I would like to invite you all to this very warmly to this great event here in Brussels next January thank you very
Much very much uh and uh now I’d say uh we fill up uh a very big panel uh and ladies and gentlemen uh I’m uh happy that everybody almost knows where they’re sitting could everybody who’s on the panel come up with a blump Christina Thank you very much uh with so many people uh one really has to do a little bit of stage management I hope that uh you forgive us uh let me just uh very briefly just introduce uh the people I I’ll go a bit more into detail when uh
Uh we are uh talking on detail uh later so um the gentleman exactly opposite from me is Patrick Barrett uh he comes from that beautiful Green Island called uh Green Island called Island um and he’s agriculture inspector bioeconomy agriculture knowledge and Innovation System and agre digitalization and I’m going to stop
Here because otherwise uh your title is going to take uh uh our time uh Philip we have already known and experienced thank you very much for that grand keynote uh Mario bonacorso he’s the director of the Italian circular bioeconomy cluster uh spring he is founder and journalist of the online journal ilbo
Economista and um I’m terribly sorry uh to everybody who was sort of expecting me to continue on because my I’ve done this before uh so sorry everybody who’s uh who’s behind me uh and um who I drive mad with my uh wrong uh uh sequencing ASD hes I’m going to continue now
Properly uh policy and project manager of the European regions research and Innovation networks thank you for being here uh Katarina campin a senior vice president um of uh the group R&D at Matt group uh and I’ll be addressing you first uh that was a warning I have
Already introduced Mario so thank you uh for sort of having smiled so nicely um I’ll continue with Dre Mass senior policy advisor on the bioeconomy Flemish Department of economy science and Innovation so it takes a lot of the boxes and uh Christina and uh this is
Now um sort of you know I always think my surname is difficult but Christina um you get the uh job wonderful thank you very much I couldn’t have said it better now this lady ladies and gentlemen uh has uh been voted European cluster manager of the Year 2022 so congratulations uh and
She’s the director of Agri food Lithuania DH and uh that is something that we really need to talk about now let me start um uh off with something that I’m used to and that is uh asking you to get out your mobile phones and uh don’t
Worry this time we’re only going to have one proper question to each and every one of you and it’s easy um to answer because there already three answers given we’re going to go to the slider question and um this is uh at the beginning and so take your time um the
Most important factor for the successful deployment of the based economy is now EU based production National legislation or the establishment of regional networks okay that might be a leading question looking at the title um of where we are discussing right now now um I look North in the true sense of the
Word and uh the mat group is of course located um very M much in in the north but you’re operating in many many many different countries and um of course when we talk about the core of bioeconomic action um and with many players in the industry I think the
Finnish Mets group working in 30 countries in regions is um of course one of the big players um but you will be experiencing different challenges in different regions in different countries and I’d like you to take us along um if you want to make your core business work
Um what do you need and how do you interact with the regions are there regions that in your mind are doing particularly well and where creating jobs where working is easy or can’t you tell us about that because you have to treat everybody equally no right thanks for the question and and
Yes hi everybody nice to be here today and and certainly I’m not the the Regional policy expert or Regional expert in by any means uh representing here um R&D of a large uh Finnish Forest industry company called metsa group meta means Forest by the way so in Finnish so
So that’s that’s who we are and um probably the reason why why I was invited here is is that um meta group has um um I guess a kind of a unique um ownership structure we are owned by a Cooperative of Finnish Forest owners so so our kind of whole point of existence
Is to to valorize their wood and make first class products out of it so we are very much bound to certain geography in terms of our wood use we do do purchase wood from outside of Finland as well but anyway most of it comes from Finland and
That’s where our owners live so that’s where we have the the pulp production the uh saw mills uh but then we do have paperboard production and tissue production also elsewhere vineard production Estonia Poland um Germany um UK um Slovakia for example but um what’s the the the
Importance of regions for us well um of course as a as a large corporate um our focus is is on our customers um and our customers are not in Finland they’re they’re elsewhere they’re in Asia China us um Middle East uh very many locations in Europe so um our kind of main focus
Obviously is not in in the regions where we are it’s it’s elsewhere uh but that doesn’t mean that the regions are not important to us because um that’s where where first of all the our owner members live The Finnish Forest owners uh Finnish forests are mainly owned by private people
Families um and 100 thousand of them are are members of the cooperative and and owning us so that’s the regions are the places where they live where they raise their kids where they get their education and and that’s where our large wood processing uh sites are located in
We operate two the the largest and the second largest wood processing sites in northern hemisphere so obviously they have a major role in that region um in for in the lives of the people um in environmental matters um and and uh of course we we need to cooperate and
And work with the regions as as closely as possible to enable that production and especially enable the circular production in the future because several circular uh economy concepts are in fact quite Regional but then maybe why my a bit more controversial Point here might be that um I don’t know maybe it’s
Because because it’s I’m from large industry and also from Finland where the regions are really small in population the whole of Finland in population is the same size as the grandest so so million people so so our regions are really small and um I don’t think Innovation should be very Regional I
Think Innovation should go across cross Regional borders across National borders so for large corporations Regional Innovation ecosystems are perhaps not that lucrative we we are open to to the whole world and our customers are not in the region often so kind of um maybe the perspective and opinion is a different
From smaller size companies but for for large large multinationals regions um don’t have such a big role in Innovation perhaps I don’t know thank you very much uh Katarina and uh if you notice a difference uh to the other sessions if you have been here before this time we
Give people a little bit more time to explain uh their differ out outlooks and uh um theories uh or practice in your case and uh talking about Theory going into practice uh I’d like to address ASD hes as policy and project manager at the European regions research and Innovation
Network so I address you more or less like an eagle um that is observing uh and and has under your belt more than 120 Regional um organizations I didn’t actually know that we had that many regions but I suppose some uh are cross uh Regional uh and um we’ve heard
About the importance of uh research and development uh you look at that uh is it a blueprint that you have come up with in all your observations as yet or would you say there are forgive me Mario many ways to roam uh I.E to decreasing carbon deficiency um um dependency not
Deficiency say thank you Connie thank you for the invitation um the question is quite long but I I think the the answer can actually be quite uh concise so in the network that that we represent and of which grandest is one of the members Beyond 120 more across 20 countries in
Europe we really um support the regions which is not per se only Regional authorities we work with the regions in their ecosystem at the local and the regional level and this is I think um very important so talking about a success formula of how do you support uh deployment about
Having fundamental applied re research up to Innovation it really comes down to um get the stakeholder is well connected I think Regional authorities they bring some kind of overview that is important because it’s at the right level to make these kind of connections and obviously um what is also very important is that
When we when we really want to have citizens and Compu consumers uh benefiting from the outcome of of of bioeconomy products um it is about creating the the best possible preconditions for this entire chain from research up to the market and um I think we have seen among
Our members um how bioeconomy obviously linked to the territorial features of the region can really be a driver for Innovation so this has been a driving force in regions who have repositioned themselves who have just like on being able to create new jobs new Employments to get the direct benefits
Um for the region which I think is is um absolutely crucial and I think uh the regional perspective and I partially agree with what what Kina just said like Innovation goes beyond and this is the second angle when we take the regional uh perspect perspective the interregional
Cooporation is crucial so we have seen among the members quite many connecting among each other collaborating exchanging which is also I think very in useful uh from a cost- effective perspective That You Do Not Duplicate but that you look for what are the strengths and how can you actually work
Together um so also um this inter Regional cooporation in these Regional innovation valleys uh that are coming this will be something very interesting uh to look at and I think maybe a last point from the territorial perspective um in the different up missions that have been launched a lot
Of uh commitment is asked from the local level both local and Regional so also for the circular bioeconomy there are very many links with the soil Mission with other missions where actually the exact stakeholders are trying to bond and create this flourishing EOS system to really reach uh policy objectives and
Joining forces together so I think the success for formula is talking to each other and collaborating and really try to Foster this deep understanding and a deep collaboration beyond the local scale thank you very much I mean for the last round the very last round I already would like you to
Think about just sort of give us the the four elements that one has to have in place in order to be successful as a region but that’s for later so homework uh already uh uh spoken uh about um ladies and gentlemen you have already been working and maybe we can just
Quickly see what uh your answers were and um I I think um it’s a leading question or it’s been a leading question that Q um the slider question so thank you very much for uh in the majority voting for the establishment of region networks platforms or clusters uh
National legislation is not uh uh unimportant but the fact that you produce in the EU is not considered such a high uh of such a high importance here uh maybe even underlining what uh uh you have said uh to a certain extent Thank you very very much for that and um for
Now uh just lean back I’m not going to bother you too much with slider questions uh Mario uh we’ve just seen uh National legislation not uh such a high importance in the eyes uh or in the voting uh of our audience um you are actually sort of U um half half um um
Italy is not a region is a state but it’s a state with many regions on one side on the other side side um you are actually sort of an observer with uh ILO economista which um fortunately also publishes in uh English thank you very much um because we could actually read
It so you have sort of the the the two capabilities both as an eagle to look at issues and also from the Italian point of view if you could merge that into what you think is important uh and share your thoughts with us please yeah with pleasure uh I consider myself as an
Observer both as a journalist and as a director of spring which is the Italian cluster of circular bioeconomy we bring together all the Italian stakeholders involved in this sector in this meta sector and also companies and organization that has an office in Italy and we have also a permanent working
Group with the Italian regions uh 15 regions are members of the Clusters plus the autonomy province of torento in Italy we have 20 regions 21 if we consider also the two autonomous province of Toronto and Bolzano so we think that the roal regions is very important because our concept of Bio
Economy is of an economy uh connected with the local areas and uh in uh this Frame regions can connect people Industries and also favor the uh creation of value chains uh the problem is that uh they are in the framework of a national level and then in the European level I was
Here yesterday attending uh the panel that you moderated with Babette Pon Ana Maria Bravo and also the CEO of Futo I think this is the big problem that involve regions involve the member states also the European Union we have too much uh uh regulation uh and we we know that we are
Good at research we are good at technology but then we invest in also in uh uh so in development of product but we have no market and this is involved the regions because I know very well also the from my point of view grand is a benchmark but Grandes is a benchmark
Also because they work with a a great support of the national government of France with the France relance I think this is the way the collaboration also between regions we have 20 regions as I said in Italy the problem is they don’t talk each other in many cases they
Replicate the Investments and this is this means a waste of money waste of resources the other problem also um that that the emerged from the discussion of yesterday that we have office also at Regional level that don’t understand the B economy this is for sure our fault but
We need a better communication we we we need to disseminate that the bi economy is about growth about jobs is about sustainability and it’s today it’s not just a niche because we have product the problem is that we we don’t have markets and then also in the grandest a very
Very positive region the investment that total energy coron was planning to do in the that region moved abroad because of the bad legislation regarding bioplastics in Europe so clock is sticking the US is accelerating the bi economy or other countries we are good we have the leadership as Europe we have
Many many regions that are investing in the bio economy with many many Flagship plants we have in Italy the the flagship plant that you mentioned yesterday uh in Sardinia matria then we have a flection plant in Veno region producing the banol by with novamont the first plant at
World level to produce bandol thanks to a technology developed by genomatica in California then novamont invested in another plant in South in Italy to reconvert a lab focus on red biotechnology in industrial biotechnology this is also the point because we have this region we our national government now our national
Government launched a plan for biotechnology totally focused on red biotechnology not considering the industrial biotechnology this means that in the US where the Obama uh blueprint National blueprint was focused red biotechnology now the executive order biotech and biom Manufacturing is moving from Red biotechnology to Industrial biotechnology there are no more only bio
Energy and pharmaceutical they are investing in biochemical they attracting plants investment from abroad I think this is the uh scenario where we are here in Europe I think we miss here in this panel the European Committee of regions and I was in 2016 Bratislava when the European commission together
With the presidency of the European Union of Slovakia organized the first first and I think the last um workshop on the role of regions in the European bioeconomy we talk a lot we know that the Ral region is so relevant but I think nothing’s move on and why also the bioeconomy
Strategies focus on the role of local areas not only regions but also cities I think we have to invest more we have to talk less we have to deliver it’s time to deliver really and I think in our uh position of cluster we are National cluster so we we
We we work with also uh Regional cluster but there there is just one cluster focus on BI economy in Italy in a very small region in basilicata then it’s so difficult to uh put the bi economy concept also in the regional plan to develop the uh circular economy the
Sustainability development plan I think really it’s time to the to join forces and I think that it’s up to our generation to set up a strong European Union beyond the borders because we have to think as Europeans not as a different nationalities this is my point thank you
I I thank you very much uh also for the strong statements uh in between um and and Mak older you know yeah that’s what I wanted I mean you know that’s uh what journalists are for or uh also uh putting the uh finger uh to the point
Where it SS um and of course I might date myself but uh I remember like 20 30 years ago I mean that’s before your time uh when we were talking about the Europe of the regions that somehow has sort of uh gone downhill and it’s never ever
Ever uh heard in Publications anymore so it’s uh wonderful to see that there are regions who putting their foot down in the true sense of the word uh may I uh uh continue with Christina um as I said you have two aspects I mean first of all
Uh I I’ve done the congratulations uh for your job for the cluster management also something that I remember uh and that does not seem to be longer any longer a sexy word I mean cluster management is uh sort of nobody talks about it anymore but you seem to be
Doing really well so what is uh your claim to success and what uh do the small mediumsized companies that are in agrifood Lithuania getting out of it okay well first of all it’s a big honor to be with such honorable guest participants here in this panel uh thank
You for having me and um right away um thank you for the congratulations and I’ve just become also the vice president for European clusters Alliance and uh one thing what I’m very proud today that starting from the uh our uh beginning of the speech given uh wonderfully by
Philip uh mentioning clusters and then continuing I’m hearing about the Clusters so uh what I’m seeing clusters are really Front Runners Front Runners in every uh initiatives which are working with the riving the regions developing the regions and working with the regions and uh from my experience
What I’m seeing um it was also mentioned very uh wisely in the opening speech that collaboration cross industrial collaboration which is very important for just smmes when uh when they work on everyday jobs it’s hard to collaborate but when you have clusters you unite the shoulders together and you just asked um
There was a question asked what is the key success factor I always say that’s people people connecting people working together and um let me just jump a little bit uh behind the time so our clust agood Lithuania was created in 2011 and our idea at that time was to
Digitalize Agri food sector nobody was yet talking about that and also it was mentioned very well we already saw the huge opportunity that we’re going to need to connect Agri food with the technology and with the upcoming uh uh possibilities with the Technologies and now what we are talking and what we are
Seeing about the regions in order for them to to revive of course we are facing the population all over the Europe and Lithuania is one of those also countries when we if if done if if nothing is being done we’re going to have Center cities so we are really
Looking forward into working with the region and U just basically to say there is a capital and then the rest of the Lithuania so being a small country here it brings big opportunity to be as a pilot for example to become like Regional Innovation H for Valley for the
Bioeconomy and um I was also listening for the opening speech and we have less people than you have in France in your region so that is another thing we can really work with our clusters with our technology companies and combining all together to have an extra value also we
Are digital Innovation Hub and we are part of European digital Innovation Hub that’s another initiative with the tool which comes to help to transform all the industries so here we uh also see big opportunities that cluster unites the shoulders with digital Innovation hubs with the hubs European digital
Innovation hubs and then we can work together towards uh developing new initiatives and um and working with new initiatives and just a little a little bit about Regional Innovation valleys under those we’ve been hearing also about another initiative startup Villages and it’s all comes to the
Regions but in order for them to succeed then we really need them to implement I agree we need to Showcase we need to have very good examples and congratulations on on what prance is doing already I’m really looking forward further and maybe into the collaboration because lots of being done and and Agri
Food sector is almost always in many Regional uh places uh comes first so this is great great also opportunities thank you very much and of course ladies and gentlemen when one has a conference one does not invite those that are failing but one invites those that are
Doing well so uh thank you very much and we’re coming to another not region but um a a state uh a nation that has uh in its every Association it’s green um and you have transferred that uh also to the bioeconomy which we also associate of
Course with being green as we see and the the it uh aspect is of course the blue so uh the setting in which we are sitting is exactly that way and I smile at uh uh Patrick because I remember that you answered uh when we were trying to
Get into conversation and there was every question was answered with we have a program for this we have a program for that now if you bind that together uh what’s what’s the secret of success of Ireland in the bioeconomy so I thank you Connie and thanks for the Green Jackets on stage as
You were saying really appreciate it um well I mean Ireland has a long way to go to be fully successful but what we’re trying to do is take a structured approach that really tries to tie together uh the regional stakeholders and the approach that we started with we we published a national bioeconomy
Action plan in uh the middle of October this year during bioeconomy Ireland week and uh in there we’ have a pillar of activity on communities regions and CI ities so a real commitment to work with the regions and in Ireland again a very small place uh we have three distinct
Regional areas but within that there is a a number of local Authority units and they all have commitments to develop themselves economically to develop skills on a regional basis to look after the Enterprises and allow them to transition uh considering the climate action uh challenges that that that
They’re required to undertake so for us what we’ve done is uh we’re working with the regions to uh get them working in tandem with the higher education institutions and the research organizations so really the basis of knowledge for the bioeconomy Ireland has invested over a 100 million since 2018
In bioeconomy research so the capacity and capability of the people is really strong and they weren’t just starting that day they were just available to make a a Avail of the funding opportunity at that moment and then what we’re looking we’re speaking to the uh regions about is what are their
Challenges and uh in that there all the local climate action plans are are identifying where all the greenhouse gas emissions are and it’s a really good strong starting point to get them thinking about well here’s our Challenge and what’s the solutions and then we’re putting coming forward with all the
Bioeconomy research and Innovation and saying well here’s part of the solutions and they’re very open then and then they see a very attractive group in their local higher education institutes who are already involved in either research groups or in clustering activities and in the clustering activities some of
Them could be working with 40 to 50 companies and in there the companies are identifying well listen we have corporate social responsibility challenges that we have to address and if we’re coming from Agri food or if we’re coming from marine or if we’re coming from forestry or from the
Biowaste industry well the Bio biobased Innovation and solutions are the way that we need to go so what we need to do is go through this cycle of scaling up the opportunities so from a government point of view then we have taken great heart and great uh uh use of the
Innovation actions that have been developed through the cju and we’ve mirrored those opportunities at a national level in Ireland so so over the last um really in 2023 we’re offering a number of opportunities so the first one was offered within the uh the just transition fund territory within Ireland
So that was really transforming what was the Petland economy to now the pet lands and bioeconomy consideration so a real opportunity for people to transition out of businesses that were just closed and they were just left with no clear opportunities to now looking at biobased opportunities another another thing
We’re looking at is between Ireland and Northern Ireland so really bioeconomy as a peace and prosperity opportunity and I suppose if I was to give a message to everybody that was asking for a narrative about about the bioeconomy it’s part of the just transition it’s part of establishing peace and
Prosperity it’s a part it’s part of delivering for farmers and Agri food companies on the ground and they’re located across all regions in Europe and that’s not just about science technology and Innovation but that’s about H H I suppose a social movement a social opportunity and these messages should be
Shared very widely because there’s very few uh I suppose opportunities in in Europe that are as wides spread as the bioeconomy uh can offer to solve so again other things that we are thinking about um I suppose trying to explain to uh people who are working in the regions
Who have to cover quite a broad policy area coming to them and saying we want to do something with you on the bioeconomy we have probably simplified that down so what we’ve done is and we’re working in partnership with uh uh some European Partners climate kick and
The circle economy group to uh bring three main topics to our regions so so one is on food loss and waste how can we help you address that the other one is on how can we H I suppose produce sustainable biomass with our primary producers and that brings together a
Whole range of I suppose what I would call bioeconomy thinking align aligning a whole line of Science and Technology to reduce emiss s to uh I suppose promote biodiversity on farms to produce sustainable biomass align it with local uh bio refining opportunities and then the other one is I suppose maybe a more
Unique challenge to Ireland is the incredible opportunity that’s going to come from offshore renewable energy and then the question we’re asking ourselves is well if we’re going to produce this energy source what are we going to do with it not just link it into a grid to
Sell it as a commodity across Europe but to what and to biobased Solutions and Innovations is one of the things that we are speaking to so our our people right so that’s where we’re at the moment Connie and it’s it’s our way of thinking but I mean we’ve learned
Incredibly from the European system to get to where we are today and we wouldn’t be where we are without without all the work in Europe thank you very much uh for sharing that uh pathway that you’ve already left behind and uh the challenges for the future uh
Um flams or the flamish region um is all around us so um well half around us anyway um and uh and so you didn’t have to come from very far but uh it’s it’s a smaller area it’s uh not Italy uh it’s not the whole of 30 countries so um how
Do you and it’s not the Gest uh so so in that smaller area um do you need to tweak in a different way do you need to give different incentives in order to establish well functioning uh bioeconomy yes yes okay could you please explain yeah thank you um I was uh
Looking up quickly the numbers uh we have a million more people than the ground West but only 20% of the Agricultural surface um also if you can compare a surfaces with Finland it’s it’s is absolutely not comparable so we are very small region very densely populated very Urban
Environment uh and that is actually what for for us the first challenge is to make sure that we um develop our bi economy specifically for our region because many of the recipes that we hear from other regions do not apply um and so we have done a lot of
Participatory work uh with the companies and with clusters and with all the stakeholders and we have have defined some ambition targets and and some choices for instance uh we’re working we try to work more on fibers we work on biomass derived from marginal lands not agriculture land because there’s not
Enough of it uh from Landscape Management we try to work work on on Specialty Chemicals uh we have the the world’s leading top scientists in our region so that’s what we’re looking about uh and so we centered our bioeconomy strategy around that so that is really the first years that we’ve
Been working on and then that’s really very helpful because we know now if we go on this direction we will get attration from the companies with us so that’s very very useful uh now we Face a challenge that uh when the bio economy is growing at
The start the bioeconomy was a team like look there’s already doing something in agriculture but what about non food Ry some do something policy about that and so there was a food policy there was a nature policy there was energy policy and then bioeconomy was for the the scraps The
Leftovers whereas bioeconomy if you want to make it in a coherent way it’s encapsulates everything you have to make it within you have to make the food within the bio economy and so on so the biggest challenge now is to convince colleagues and other departments that they are all
Part of the bio economy and have to work together on a coherent policy framework and that is a very tedious process uh but we we’re tackling it but it’s very uh important to to make sure that everybody is included in the bio economy and doesn’t not think okay first
We take care of the climent policy and then if there’s anything left we look at we look at what we can do for carbon storage and so on and materials that is something uh we have to work it have to work it around so that is our challenge
We’re tackling now but the fact that we have a working strategy for Flanders um and we see that it’s getting traction we see that companies are getting more uh active it helps to raise our voice also in the region to raise the profile of the bioeconomy and to make sure that we are
Hur thank you very much uh and uh we’ve done our first big round on the panel um and uh as I said this time it’s going to go differently so uh I’d really love you to chip in uh at this point uh we do have uh uh Gloria um with the microphone
And Matthew on that side so we do need uh the hand uh hands up and Gloria there’s already a gentleman in the middle so if you’re faster than Matthew let’s make it a race could you keep up your arms so yes thank you thank you sir uh quick introduction and then your
Question please hello thank you for the great panel my name is Axel Weisman from Germany and my background is development of bi materials but I’m also connected to region which is not on the panel it’s the bioeconomy r in in in Germany but also second region where we try to build
A network management for biom materials my point is um well shouldn’t we not focus more on the economy side so I very much agree with many issues you tackle if it’s from the agriculture point from the technology point from met um but in the end if you take the
Whole value chain I think the market pull is the decisive point um and we do not just need to consider let’s say the big chemicals Industries as we have seen with lanch or or other other examples we should also consider the existing Enterprises who have a need to
Transform and to exit their fossil based resources and going to biog Gene ones I think this is a hidden space which the next networks in the region can very well explore I think the regions can take a responsibility to build the value chain network and to help Enterprises to take a
Transformation so my question some what is well have you considered these in your Concepts in your different ones and don’t and do you agree somewhat well how to how we can explore this hidden existing potential in transformation thank you very much for that question do we have I usually like
To have sort of two or three questions if there should be some I do not see any raised arms or hands so um any first take us Patrick and uh I have a sort of tweak for you on that yes please yeah I think that’s definitely something that
We are considering and the way that that is um coming to fruition is is really by investment in in uh clustering or in research infrastructure or piloting and demonstration infrastructure which provides a space and place where people can come uh with their industrial challenge uh to meet the scientists and
Technologists and to look at scaling up the opportunity um so it’s either through clusters piling a demonstration facilities and the key person there that you’re putting in place is the of the network manager and the team that’s there because they have the ability to bridge between the um I suppose the
Challenge of the company the the science and the technology uh the business development the the scaling up of the opportunity a and interlinking with how to bring this to the marketplace so that’s absolutely essential and I think this is one of the key Investments That Europe can
Make across the whole continent is in this type of facilities in the regions what what we need to do is make sure that all these facilities are talking to each other because we don’t need repeat facilities what we need is compliment activities and uh this opportunity is is
Really a clear investment choice that Europe can make thank you very much um whatever you want to say and I’d like to tweak it with uh your startups that that you support do they think different um because it says you know you you you enable them so so what is the difference
What’s the what’s the turn what’s the tweak that you give them in order to create that bioeconomy whereas some might still think in the traditional thinking and also in the traditional economy okay thank you for that question so that’s now two-sided so the comment was great very good comment on the um transform
More the industries I’m always going back because this is my competence of the field to the Agri food forestry uh to the sectors and um uh I’m participating very actively at the business at oecd also activities so an oecd recently has said that we need to have the report on the measuring
Carbon footprint in food value chain and we are talking very loudly about Net Zero food chain what it means it means a lot of transformation uh it when we talk about it for now it’s rocket Sciences but uh many things has been that looked that they are not doable or very hardly
Reachable and we have done it so what towards what we are moving we are moving towards net zero food value chain and it includes all the industries together working together in transition because what we’ve seen from Co what we are seeing from the War uh going on we’re
Seeing that uh we cannot talk anymore about just a single industry when we are talking about the transitions we need to combine everything and now we see uh food is closely connected to the energy and uh when we’re talking about the bioeconomy we need to understand that
It’s not only not only food not only energy not only traditional uh Industries it’s everyone in now startups that’s where startups come in startups they come with their new ideas they’re very fast and very fast growing so that’s where we get those Technologies high tech deep Tech cheaper uh faster implemented into the
Industries and faster tested that’s how we create those ecosystems for for the uh for for our for example startups and again this Regional Innovation valleys that we’ve been talking about that that is all about and what we’ve been talking in Lithuania that since we have not only
Farmers in the region we have the biggest uh food producers in the region also located so we see those producers as you know the patrons the the centers for the startups to come into the region work together with them to gain experience and right there to implement and test their
Technologies thank you very much uh Philip uh you may want to comment uh on this and uh how do you whilst going forward how do you integrate the traditional industries that were located in your area Start Etc for Thank you so much and uh maybe the young man will um share the English so I’m fine uh I’d like to share the key elements of success one of the major ones really was to break the isolation of the different stakeholders what we’ve done in the grest region is to realize
This reality and we decided to set up a system for the governance of the bioeconomy this worked via a committee for strategic steering which brought together all the different stakeholders uh you you had the economic players but also uh the industry and the farmers and Foresters and um this brought about
Sectoral contracts and that’s the one other key element uh for example key element um sorry sectoral contracts for the biomaterial industry where we brought together more than 50 stakeholders including the clients of that industry for example you have the construction industry which isn’t really naturally inclined to going towards
Those Solutions they’re not necessarily very aware of those possibilities and because these industries and all the players will have signed these contracts they will have committed to actually engaged in a biobased dynamic uh and this involves of course the region which provides financial support thank you very much uh
Uh also for the great interpretation um I I have have Mario already as a standby I’m not quite sure whether you would like to uh add and as it as well so um Mario please yeah so from my perspective which is not only an Italian perspective I believe there are many industrial
Fields that are interested in the innovation of the bioeconomy I mean the fashion industry for example in Italy they are investing in uh new biom materials for sure collaborating with other companies the automotive uh industry uh one of our member in Italy is stellantis and the goal of stellant is to have green
Product in their cars the 35% of biom material green materials in their cars by 2030 then the food industry and uh for sure this is the eological transition this Industries need networks and also fundings and also the right condition as we said before and then one strategic
Tool is and agree with Patrick we know that the share pile of facilities are strategic for this transition we are here in Flanders where is located one of the uh the most dynamic and Innovative sh pilot facility the biobase EUR pilot plan we are proud to have them as one of
Our members now and we are also trying to replicate uh but to specialize such of share pilot facility in Italy uh because we know that companies have to test technology and this is important not only in order to uh scale up the technology but also to the risk the
Investment of investors they they need to know if the technology works or not and then they could they could put money on the startups then so I’m trying to talk with the regions and it’s very difficult because uh it changed from region to region but we don’t know who is charge of bioeconomy
Because bio economy is a meta sector in some regions uh it depends on the Department of Agriculture Economic Development research we need to create in this sense a sort of inter inter departmental uh uh organization Department I don’t know but just to a sort of um control uh uh uh check in
Order to have a common governance of this issue but so coming back to share pilot facility I was involved as a stakeholder in a interre project and my view at the time was that the different share pilot facility consider themselves as competitors at European level they don’t specialize I think we must think
Also in this case as European we have to specialize we have not to replicate we have here in Fr there a very an excellent Shire facility but we have to understand how we can take advantage of their experience their knowledge they know how in order to replicate in a
Better way in other European count I think in Italy because we are in South Europe we have to collaborate so by economy is about collaboration because collaboration is to be competitive and this is I think the way to bring together Regions National level and European level if they can
Understand what is the by economy okay thank you very much just as an interjection uh and uh I I have you Catalina and uh also as uh as an interjection I we did not discuss in the last round uh about a commissioner for the bio economy or a spokes a European
Spokesperson we we did not talk about that but it was certainly sort of talked about in the prep meetings and it seems that like even if you’re on a regional level and you want to collabor at uh if you do not know who you actually need to
Talk to uh it’s probably difficult um I assume is the concept of grand grand you have to collaborate also among regions because you have not to replicate the same investment it’s a waste of money waste of resources also Beyond borders because so some French regions could collaborate with Pont liua because they
Share the Border I think this is the Europe the Europe Europe from my point of view thank you very much uh katalina I mean um you sort of above um the national boundaries as as an international company operating um do you find the right people and how if at
All uh are you integrating let me say the traditional the non bioeconomy industry are we integrating with non traditional non bioeconomy talking to them or getting them or tweaking them uh to change operations like there could be a good partner but maybe we sort of you know make them an offer they can’t
Refuse U well yes I guess that’s what it’s all about what we are doing we are hoping that the the big companies in the traditional fossile business are are switching to biobased uh in in in in some duration in time uh but yeah I think um a good example of this kind of
Cooperation could be the the biomethanol um uh production that we are doing in or starting next year industrial production I think the capacity 10,000 tons of of uh crude methanol that that our partner veia is is purifying then in our Central uh Finland an aosi Mill it’s been um it
Comes from wood it is it is being extracted in the uh cooking process of Pulp and we used to burn it and make electricity out of it but you can take it out of the Recycled streams purify it and use it as as a biomethanol for for
Fuels or or chemicals uh and that’s a cooperation that was not born born from any Regional activity I don’t think Valia has been active in the region before that so obviously two large International companies collaborating but then there are Regional uh examples another one example of of a local
Startup called soil food that is now utilizing our um sludges from from the pulp and paperboard Mill especially from the paperboard mill this sludge called fiber clay and they are using it in soil Improvement in the fields and again this is then bringing the forest industry and
The Agro industry together and and this is very much Regional because you cannot transport these slightly wet sludges from long distances so you have both you have the multinational chemical industry um transport fuel industry uh Forest industry corporations and then you have the small ones on the local side with
Startups often so both need to be covered thank you very much as you already have sort of the microphone half to your mouth uh so uh if you want to add uh one or two sentences uh to the uh quite uh valid and and uh very interesting point which up to now we
Hadn’t heard so again thank you very much uh for that argument um any comment well I think we all agree that how I say the mission forward is really to bring research and Innovation to real life yeah and I actually like um what Kenne Kevin oconor presented yesterday
About these deep demonstrators how does this work at a territorial level so basically where the local and the regional Dimension come in um I think um the vice president of G has already said it’s about this ecosystem approach of collaboration within a region and beyond your region to to really make sure how
We can speed up this and maybe also to flag for the audience because um I think this is a really interesting in uh initiative in which Ain is is also involved it’s the circular cities and regions initiative of the European commission under dgtd um in which we actually are working
To together with the stakeholders at local and Regional level to speed up circular economy in general in which bioeconomy is one of the the main pillars that we are working on and I think one of the the key uh elements really to to get this level of of speed
Um is really also look at the governance of how do we work together I think it’s excellent that we have a CBE partnership but having these local authorities involved also from the beginning of the design process will actually Foster the deployment afterwards so it’s I think an
Important uh uh element to also see how to strengthen the partnership with this with this uh territorial Regional Dimension thank you very much uh anybody else uh wanting uh to comment because then we can actually uh with one minute to go get into the final round I hope
That there is now no longer anybody uh who’s forgotten to raise their arms and uh ask a question because uh in the last round I would really like you uh to give a takeaway like you know if somebody gets home uh or to their desk again or
To their cars in order to go and meet customers uh on Monday day or ideally on the bike I suppose in the bioeconomy I should probably say bike and not car um so what is it that you want everybody to remember not just from this session but from this meeting from this stakeholder
Meeting I’ve heard the word collaboration quite a bit uh I’ve heard the word and I interpret now transparency about the systems uh I’ve heard uh about uh you saying that there are four aspects that you brought together and I’ve heard also uh somebody yesterday from the audience say they get
It I mean they were referring to this French government but if I interpret some of your questions a lot of those who are successful got it um and therefore also were able to put it into practice so what is it that you would want everybody to take away and uh make maybe don’t
Look so frightened I had left you out in the last round so maybe you kick off our last round what is it that you would everybody to know how to incentivize and then keep going and keep growing the bioeconomy whichever shape form or Mana it takes well for the policy
Perspective um I think we we really have to um we really have to own our our particular location for instance uh in Flanders very Urban Solutions um very scattered uh streams of biowaste every bioeconomy um initiative that we’re going to take is essentially going to be very
Complex we cannot have one big large coron based bioethanol Factory in in maners I mean doesn’t impossible no surface no no um no Capital so um if we going to in to to do some initiatives in the bioeconomy it has to fit historically it has to fit uh
Geographically it has to fit with our um yeah with our resources which are many but still um and because the bioeconomy has so many aspects uh it’s about uh emissions and nature and so on it has to fit in all aspects so as well from the
Site of a company who comes up with a new idea um we’ll really have to work on that fit and I think the policy at same thank you I know that you all would not want to say we’re already doing it right and therefore this is what you also need
To do uh but maybe sort of in your answer you could share what you think works okay well nobody mentioned that very important factor today also that uh we talk about EU policymaking but then on the national level we forgot we have Smart strategy in each of the member
State so if it’s not incorporated into smart strategy the bioeconomy uh direction of the pathway then it’s going to be very hard we can talk a lot but um it won’t be move moving forward so this is very important point now so just whenever whoever comes back home check
It out if if you have it on the smart strategy another very important uh Point uh we’ve been talking a lot already not only creating new networks but uh creating networks of the networks so uh every day I I meet new initiatives new networks and I see huge
Possibilities for us to keep uniting together and working together because another very important um factor is you’ve mentioned collaboration then there is trust trust between the networks between the members uh only then you can really create new values and and move forward when you really have this trust so these are very
Important aspects and of course sharing the knowledge still uh I’m so surprised we’ve been traveling we talk a lot but every time I find out about new initiative new project new possibilities so somehow to make it work sharing more knowledge on on the initiatives and collaborating together
And I would strongly agree regions need to collaborate with each other in order to move forward with this initiative of bioeconomy thank you very much Patrick yes so thank you so I think the key message that I think that’s very important and I really didn’t hear it this week is that
Bioeconomy is is essential for the social fact fabric within Europe and this can be delivered within the regions because people really care about where they live and they care about the environment of where they live they con care that they’re contributing to H climate Solutions but they also want to
See green jobs delivered for their families and their friends and they want to see their uh area rural or Regional be able to thrive and be a place to be proud of and they’re prepared to commit to that so I think the bioeconomy offers
Them a route to do this and we need to think of it not only as a a delivery tool for science technology and Innovation but also as a tool to deliver for people I think that’s really important message and there’s very few opportunities that can consider this on
A European wide basis thank you very much um uh who wants to Mario let me propose just two titles as a journalist I still pay the fee to the National Italian national register journalist register I think the the first is the bioeconomy revolution is Unstoppable and then there is no
Industrial Revolution without a cultural revolution so I think we really need a change of mindset and uh we need probably to to act better also in educate people not only students uh and Scholars but also off officers in the different public administration offices we we we need really to to to to let
Them know what is the bi economy how it is so important which is the reality and uh which is the present or the future our economy and that the bi economy reconciles the economy with the society and environment this is very important this is also the title of the last
European uh strategy focus on BI economy and we just have to join forces and I think so we we we we share a common Vision I think I consider myself very lucky because I have the opportunity to meet and know uh fantastic people that are making the bio
Economy happen and this is very important thank you very much now uh Mr Maan Philip we for for ET thank you so much uh who’s doing uh okay I’d like to fully support what our colleague from Italy has said and uh one thing that uh we think we need to do is
To bring together citizens with to include them in our thought process um we in the Gest region organized a month of the bioeconomy with 120 events open to the public and the reaction the participants had was fantastic because they discovered what could be done with hemp for example as a biom material all
The things you can do with all these aspects um another aspect I want like to in on is the acceptability of the bioeconomy in society people tend to view the Earth as a source of nourishment a source of food and it’s not always obvious for them to accept
The idea that it can be used to produce other things other materials um another element is the necessary relocation of some production facilities factories which will be which will need to come closer to where biomass is produced and people sometimes do have difficulties except in that the reactions can be
Negative we need to work with citizens to help them understand that this can be a new source of optimism and here I’d like to talk about young people bioeconomy is something that can give meaning to their careers and uh that’s something that that we’re very much aware of meaning is something that is
Very important to today’s youth so bi economy is something that can bring jobs to them as well thank you very much uh mercy and I have Katarina and then arred and then one word the last word from Mario please all right maybe my short recommendation or takeaway message is that it seems to
Me that we need in each and every organization whether it is uh Industrial company uh the region National level certainly the commission uh to have a person responsible of bioeconomy and responsible of bioeconomy advancement and bioeconomic collaboration if we have those people in place were much better equipped to actually get something done
If if if it covers all through these these levels and and parts of the the um society that would be shortly thank you very much last but not least as you may be short but the four aspects that we need the four ingredients I’m not going to let you off that
Hook okay well first I’m very happy with this uh new commissioner for uh circular bioeconomy I think uh I like the idea but um bring it down to four and it was already mentioned I think um it’s about the ecosystem approach with multi-stakeholder engagement making Innovation land in society and make it
Economically viable this is I think a very important one um I think that um the local and the regional uh strengths should be further capitalized also to position Europe uh in the global market and this is the only way forward will be in strengthening the collaborations within the regions and Beyond the
Regions um and I think um that having a long-term vision is actually also very important to have ambass adors and believer pass on the message and not just from today to tomorrow but really look at it on a longer term that this is the only way forward for Europe thank
You very much and continue the great work Mario your last just a proposal because following what M man has just told us we also organize in Italy a bi economy day I know that in irand there is the B economy week B economy day in other European count why so and CB could
Have the leadership of this why not a European B economy day the same day everywhere in Europe when we organize events also to communicate to educate to disseminate but just also to be a big to make a big pressure the same day at European level I think is not so difficult there next
Year there’s an bony change maker Festival I know but in March I know and we will organize an event in in in Rome but why not a bi economy day or bio economy week to organize events also with politicians and officers um that’s a great idea of
Course being a journalist I always say um from a journalistic point of view you always build stories around a day like that um it’s very seldom that you ignore that but that’s for storybuilding and maybe that’s for the background uh where we can pull some strengths only want to
Say thank you very much for all of your contributions ladies and gentlemen we need need a big round of applause um this is not meant just like that keep up the good work and expand and uh infiltrate as many organizations as you can give them all the knowledge that you
Have and uh use it as much uh as we can ladies and gentlemen I have only taken away four minutes of your lunch break uh we are going to see each other back in uh the big Auditorium for the closing session at 2:30 and if you’re wondering
Why I’ve been trying to write along uh whilst listening it’s uh course uh my colleagues and me will have to sort of re report back but then it’s going to be very condensed so uh if you’re missing one or two messages uh please forgive us in advance and now do what uh this
Conference is all about mingling collaboration exchanging views thank you very much for attention