Safer and Stronger Communities OSC – Thursday, 30 November 2023

Get the thing fired up uh so yes good morning everybody uh for the benefit of our YouTube viewers members of the safer and stronger communities overview and scrutiny subcommittee are present in the committee chamber Hall Beverly officers have also joined us so can members please ensure that all

Mobile phones are Switched Off and if the fire alarm sounds please exit the room via the fire doors which are over there which will be signposted by the committee manager if she hasn’t already left the room um so we’ve got a a full agenda this morning and it’s I just like to U

Welcome Jonathan everon who is the police and crime commissioner for coming and Paul Anderson who is the chief Constable it’s great to have the two the two big hitters in in in in the Poli world with us and it’s very important that we uh we ask them the right

Questions and make sure that uh that we don’t leave any Stones unturned so on that on that note I will start by asking for any Declarations of interest from anybody counc just want it known that um I know Mr everon through previous employment okay thank you very much anybody

Else hang yes so item number two the minutes to approve as a correct record the minutes of the meeting held on the 12th of October then you okay with them yes do you want anybody you want yeah thank you very much for that okay so without any further Ado I’ll

Pass us ourselves on to the humberside police and crime commissioner thank you very much thank you chair and and just to um sort of put things in context Paul is the hitter and I’m the bigger so uh so there we are um police and crime Commissioners um um are not an OP not

It’s not an operational position um I think some of you are new to this to this committee so I think it’s worth saying mine is more strategic setting a plan um and and following that plan through and it also involves um not just police probably only about 30 35% of my

Time is sent dealing with with with the police um uh uh hold into account and and scrutiny um the rest is and crime so that can be youth diversion it can be um helping people and and communities and the commissioning which can be drugs alcohol all all the uh the associated

Other things so anyway there’s quite a lot of detail I I I was asked for um quite a lot of questions so some I might just skim over because I’ve only got half an hour but if there’s something you specifically wanted to ask questions about you’ve got obviously time uh to uh

To do that um I will not stray too much into operational uh matters because you’ve got the chief Constable here and the chief Constable is the operational person um in the uh uh in in this um uh scenario so um I’ve got my thing up there I’ll just

Have to work out how we how the clicker works and okay there we are so just to so you asked for an update on the police and and and and crime plan so the overall approach for how we do this um is there is a police and crime plan um which was

Published in September 23 that was normally it’s a 4year plan but that’s was a three-year plan but because of covid the previous incumbent got five years so there was no election elections were delayed for a year I get three years um because they want to rebalance

Rebalance it uh it up so in September 23 the plan was published it was the first out the gate um in in the Hall of the uh the country that’s backed by a uh an annual uh report and an annual uh delivery plan which is how we actually

Set out what we’re we’re going to uh to do some of the implementations the visions and the missions um and values within there um all that all these details go un updated to the police and and crime panel um on a uh well about five times a year they get the

Opportunity to uh to ask questions and particularly pick and deep dive into into various various areas as far as Force Improvement and Paul will cover a lot of this I’m sure um humberside is the only outstanding police force has measured um through Peele via the his Majesty’s inspector of of of constab six

Outstandings two goods um at the peel the peel report there’s no other force in the country that really comes anywhere uh near that but we aren’t there yet and we recognize that and nobody’s sitting back on The Laurels uh and saying uh uh you know we’ve achieved

It because we haven’t because we need the public to have the feeling that they’ve got an outstanding force and perception is always behind behind actual uh delivery um and just to give you some some headlines basically um you you have a force that’s got the highest

Arrest rate um in the country and also the highest uh uh wipe up uh rate uh in the country highest morale um as as well um I I made a decision very early on because um the all forces were been her will been herded down a degree only

Entry uh uh into into police forces and I felt that was not um the right way to go um traditionally um you would apply to to become a police officer you’d have two a levels a bit of Life skilled the life you know um life experience and you’d

And and You’ be trained to be a police officer and also when I dug down um most of the applicants had got degrees already and often in in criminology so I didn’t see there was a need for those applicants to have to do another degree and what it would have caused if we

Stayed in the degree entry route was a three-year pipeline because a degree is three years where significant numbers of offices in fact more than 10% of the offices would have been um you couldn’t you couldn’t deploy them effectively so we managed to persuade the Home Secretary to stop doing that

And very early on in the in my in my reign we uh we did that so officers in humberside are trained in house it’s 23-week training uh course most have got degrees and they are if you like cooked um a lot quicker than the three years and avoids a three-year pipeline where

You can’t deploy them and reduces your numbers by more than 10% and it also save £750,000 a year on training costs so that was that was good because I’m I’m a Lincoln sh ad and Lincoln sh ads are a bit like yads just without the charity so anything that comes back’s always

Useful um I was also very gregarious in wanting to get as much money into the region as I possibly could um government money through the home office and the criminal justice system and and I actually set a Target to 10 million pound um but the office had never the

Office a big turn around for the office they’d never actually done that sort of uh that much work and they said look commissioner we will take it that we’ve got to get try to get 10 million but can we in the plan put 4 million I said

That’s fine you can put whatever we want in the plan but in my head it’s 10 million by Christmas we’ll have done 20 million maybe a bit more more okay so that’s fresh money that’s coming into helping communities in the in the area um and hopefully takes some of the some

Of the load um and crime particularly from young people and uh and people breaking into community centers and people’s homes because we are we are helping them to uh to to make them more secure um we also have successful with a violent prevention partnership the first

Time hded have ever had one of those that’s about a five5 million pound uh deal it’s Hotpot police if anybody’s from uh from Bridlington they’ll see um some of that work which I’m sure Paul will will come on to I invested in the community safety Partnerships all four local authorities have got community

Safety Partnerships that’s about 3.6 million and I gave them a three-year deal before that they’d only had a one-year deal and that’s an atrocious way to actually run it a partnership because six months into it you put people on on notice that they’re going to be um made unemployed um you can’t

Attract good people and good people leave because because they go to better jobs which you’ve got longer uh longer prospects um I also wanted a community safety fund um which is for projects um in the um in the communities and and I’ve got lists of all the projects that

We’ve that we’ve um initiated within um the uh uh the East Riding um and we’ve done we’ve done 190 projects throughout the Humber region to date and we’re still going we’re on our fourth iteration of that and that’s Community groups Parish councils town councils um youth organizations it can be CCTV

Fencing lighting security for for people’s vulnerable people’s buildings um uh youth diversion Sports Arts um motorcycle motorbike motor car um um maintenance that sort of thing to divert young people away from crime because if we stop young people from falling into crime then we cure can cure about 20% of

Of crime because 20% of crime is committed by by by new offenders um so that’s Community safety fund we also have a A combating drugs partnership which you’re you’re all part of and and we produce a which produces a we produce a six-monthly uh performance um so if we move if we move

On okay so just just one there uh tackling crime in Rural and Coastal and urban areas well I’ve got quite a bit to talk about uh about this response times are very very good um and they’re improving um all all all the time the force control room is an outstanding

Control room I think this committee came and saw it um a few weeks ago or the other week it’s the only one like that in the C in the country it is really really tricked up it is capable of analyzing the demand that they’re going to have from hour to hour and it’s

Capable of understanding the demand that can be satisfied by the people inside it by shift and if there’s a disparity they can do something about it and two indicators I really really like is the drop off rate um and the the actual call answer time the drop off rate for for um

999 is something like 0.2% and 101 is something like 2 or 3% and the next nearest drop off rate so that’s when people get just hang up and and they don’t they don’t wait for for a response but it’s 7 Seconds 999 and about a minute and 30 seconds for the

The the 101 um but they can call back that can go on a callback system um it’s called um uh Q Buster thank you thank you talking too fast my brain’s not catching up um Q Buster uh and and it rings them back so they keep the place

In the queue and the drop off rate this is important for 101 is two to 5% depending on demand it it varies between but most days you can be looking two or 3% the next nearest is 8% nationally for a for a call center and then the next

One is a 11% the average is probably 28 35% and there are even examples um uh of of 60% drop off rate and what happens is as they get busier the call centers they transfer people onto the 999 to secure that and and and and it detracts from

The 101 so people get cheesed off because they’re waiting so long and not getting a response for 101 the ring 999 and so they transfer more people well that doesn’t happen in 100% so it’s very very good uh brinon and dri driffield um um driffield particularly 247 response

Team we put in um that was with the previous Chief but um this this Chief um actually implemented um uh that what that does it makes a very useful addition to the 24 response because you’re not pulling people from pocklington you’re not pulling people down from from Bridlington so it helps

Po pocklington and it helps uh uh Bridlington um one of the one of the big things that people complain about it’s not the biggest probably about 30d is nuisance motorbikes motorbike theft and uh and and motorbike AED uh crime when I came into post we had three yellin um

Trials bikes we now have 10 you have two dedicated in in the um East Riding um Hull has uh three four they had three I extended it to I couldn’t see why they needed three why don’t just have four and have two teams uh and on the south

Bank there’s another four gone in uh in there and shortly will be Pursuit trials bikes bigger bikes that they can pursue um more effectively on the road mentioned Bridlington um clear hold build in Bridlington so operation and and again I’m not going to say a lot about it

Because the chief will no doubt be saying that operation Shield coming through a door near you um is uh is in operation but it’s in operation all over the um uh the the humba the humba region I’ll let I’ll not steal the Chiefs uh Thunder and not tell

You because he he he will be very pleased to tell you but it’s been very very successful and behind that there’s something called clear hold build so Shield clears you hold the they hold the ground and then you build with with the community um uh inv investment um uh and coming

Soon and I was concerned that in the summer and because of the increased visitor numbers we didn’t have um as much cover as I felt comfortable with in the uh in the coastal areas so bring um wither and sea horn SE CLE thorps are massive increases in population um

And so there’s something that uh that we’ve called it number and names but to me it’s it’s it’s a coastal response team which will operate particularly during the uh the summer months where where visiting numbers increase let’s just move on this is actually very good because usually when I get one of these

Clickers it never works and then go then you go backwards um so increasing numbers of police officers and visibility um as of about now um we have 2321 police offices that’s about a 100 up or will be a 100 up by the time everybody’s gone through training uh and

What have you I think there was4 this year that have that have that have come in which in my three years makes about 450 extra officers in the in the Humber region and they’ve been deployed in in in neighborhoods in response in domestic abuse all all over the place in in the Galaxy

Teams as well um and that’s from a low of 1,624 um back in 20 2016 and it is I’m assured the highest in a generation um apparently there’s some there’s some difficulty we can’t see beyond sort of backwards Beyond 2000 so um and the chief coner will Constable

Will will we’ll will’ll um talk about that um uh so uh special constables particularly in the East riding the takeup is very very good um we’re trying to encourage more special constables I think we have a target of something like 200 250 the trouble is special constables sometimes

See the rout of special Constable as an opportunity to then progress to be a police officer so you’re always topping it up but they are um um unusually busy because that’s not the the common thing around people become special constables and then don’t tend to do quite a lot

But in this region they do and particularly in in in the East Riding that’s very good and the uh and the council tax scheme is is very useful as well because you give you give special constables a little bit of Advantage as far as council tax so we really really

Um appreciate appreciate that move on yeah so enhancing crime reporting and community Communications um uh my survey from my office um it runs every year usually we get something between uh 1,500 and two and a half thousand uh responses um we uh we also have um uh uh

Information going out on my community alert and if you’re not signed up to my community alert it comes straight to your palm through your handheld and uh and you get an opportunity to see what’s going on and an update on on on simple things like there’s a road closed or

Avoid this accident or um have you got any information looking for missing people but it gives you an awful lot more so that’s very good I also publish a lot of details in the local Authority newsletters every every quarter newsletter that’s been produced in the

East Riding I’ve had two pages I’m a I’m a centerfold sometimes um two-page spread uh in there giving the public some some uh some detail the top issues are drug use and dealing um usually in this survey and that’s not uh not uh uh unusual this year um hence the uh the

Um uh the focus on operation Shield CLE build and uh most of these things and again I’m not going to mention how much but there are significant arrests and and seizures misuse of motorcycles and scooters as I as I mentioned speeding and dous driving that is an Enforcement

Issue but it’s also safer roads Humber and we are having sucess some success with safer roads Humber and we’ve got some good news coming we’ve been talking to the Department of Transport are going to help us actually do something um slightly differently which when we’ve

Got that signed off I will write to you all and tell you what it that’s actually going to be but it will be a five-point plan of how we reduce casualties deaths and and serious engine on the roads and operate in a different way because what

Saer Road H tends to do is operate and concentrate solely on speeding speeding represents less than 1% of all serious injuries um and killed statistics in everywhere so we need to look at driver behavior and so that’s what the the the new fivepoint plan we’ll be doing and

The fash that’s coming into to to help that basically Dash cown downloads type stuff where um Everybody well everybody who’s got a a dash cam in their car and sees something dangerous can report it and and it will be uh Tak issue burglary um well burglaries are down um uh

Predominantly In the Hall of the humba Humber region but what I did do a couple of years ago talked to the to the ex-chief and said look we respond with a with an officer to every B commercial to sorry to every house burglary so no matter where

You are where you live if you live there you and you’ve been burgled um then you will get an officer come in um um somebody will talk to you but then the officer will come in and see if there is anything evidential and what’s Happ you but that was not happening in farm

Burglaries um because it was treated as a commercial concern because it was a business and so I said look you know a lot of these Farmers live there they’re very isolated can we do and and Lee looked at it and he said yeah you’re absolutely right and so now all those

Domestic burglaries in farms are are receiving um uh a visit um it also said that 40% um um of people had had been victims of some sort um in that uh you know so either crime or antisocial Behavior although antisocial Behavior against the person is down about 70% in the whole of the

Umber region that doesn’t mean to say it’s down in your ward but generally it’s down well it will be down in your world but gen may not by 70% and one thing I’ve been banging and banging and banging on 30% of people don’t report crime if you don’t report crime the

Police can’t help you and sometimes you you would think oh well there’s nothing to report really there’s no evidence but we but we and the police need to know that because that’s the way resources are meted out on reported crime so it’s vitally important and and it might only be information might only

Be intelligence but if that intelligence is triangulated by two or three other people then it’s maybe activable activ acable on and it might involve somebody in dodgy van or something like that that we could probably the police could probably pick up with the automatic number plate recognition cameras so it’s

Very very helpful um and uh and and and I say I mentioned antisocial behavior is down down by uh by 70% let’s just move on how am I doing oh I’m doing not too bad um one of the things we I wanted to do was improve education and diversion activities for for young

People and that’s predominantly what the community safety fund IT suppos projects across the East Riding um um and and and I’ve I’ve actually got a A list of all the projects here the East Riding ones are in are are are in in green and there’s literally um um a dozen 18 some

Are with Hull some are with North Lincolnshire like the rural the rural crime team one was with uh yor uh with was with Northern lincolshire because you’ve got commonality as far as the rural area is concerned um and you can see driffield youth action groundw Yorkshire uh in ghoul young people um

Count youth save initiative in pocklington I want to actually get to young people as much as I can but I also want to help people um and Parish councils with CCTV uh sports clubs with fencing sports clubs with CV CCTV Community Halls CCTV lighting you name it uh and we just help

Because if we can stop the best way to protect a victim is to stop them becoming a victim in the first place which is what I want to be proactive uh in doing in doing that and then I thought why don’t we get the community involved and so I had this idea about

Community resp response fund which is basically a um uh a democratic Community pot and and there’s one happened up in uh in in Bridlington um the the re Rew Wilding youth which working with young people from an estate to uh up there to try to divert young people and get some

Good um attitude and aspiration uh within those young people so that they they don’t see that life of crime is a is is a Way Forward because I was first my first encounter with young people through the tiger trust two and a half years ago was in a in a church Hall um

With a load of um uh junior school children having a good old time and we sat down and had a coup of I sat down in my suit on a really really dusty floor um and had a and had a glass of a glass of juice with them and they asked me

Loads of questions and then I asked a few questions and one of the questions I asked this little lad and I said so I’ve told you what I I do what do you want to do oh he says man I says I’m going in there

I didn’t know where I was really it was dark I says where’s there he says old prison my dad’s in there my granddad’s been in there a long time now he was he was a bit of a lad so it could have just been talk but my fear is if you talk

About it you’re thinking about it if you’re thinking about it you’re programming yourself and if you don’t know anything else then that’s where you’re going to end up and that’s what I’ve tried to do with a lot of these with a lot of these projects but not not exclusively and the community response

Fund actually allows the community so we will ask people um uh what do they want to do in that community and then we will let those people have a Facebook type vote and decide which one they’re going to do and invariably we actually pay for

Them to do it all but it it’s engaging um uh those those people we have a a big educational partnership established it started in something called not in our community um which was a youth diversion um county lines um uh uh in so so people with lived experience um

Developed it and I wanted to develop that into something that was fit for purpose for everything that we talk about in the criminal justice system um so that school teachers could actually deliver programs and lessons they would have a lesson plan it would be backed by

The opcc my office and it would not be flimflam it would be pocket and actually um we would do the research to make sure it was and they would be able to deliver that and we also put people in with um with experience uh and practitioners to to to help that

Um so we’ll just move on okay I obviously shuffled these really well so just to update a few things on the opcc um one of the big drives I had was violence against women and girls but domestic abuse in particular um and the statistics are

Quite Stark um when you when you look at the statistics um 97 7.8% of women and girls have have had some form of abuse it could be quite simple misogyny cat calling then inappropriate touching all the way up to serious serious violence sexual violence and and and murder and

I’m an engineer and so I like I like the detail I like the statistics and 97.8% to me sounded a lot I’ve got four daughters and a wife and so I went and they’re all adults my daughters I also four granddaughters who who were who were uh uh primary school children and I

Went to my four adult daughters and my wife and said that’s a lot is that right and I said no Dad it’s not it’s 100% And so I decided to work with um a very very good um National Practitioner A lady called Jessica um Dr Jessica

Taylor to actually see what we could do and the police also work with her as well to uh to to take learning points of how to how to to do that and so I talk a lot nationally and when I’m I’m I’m in groups of of people about violence

Against women and girls and I want to eradicate it completely and to be quite honest I once said this to a BBC um home Affairs reporter and he scoffed what you want to eradicate it said yeah completely he says he says well you’ll never do that I said look mate I’ve got

Four daughters if I said I want to reduce it by 50% that means two of my daughters are still being abused and that’s not acceptable to me so the target is to is to get rid of it it’s a big one it’s a generational program um also when we’re talking about

Domestic Imus violence against women and girls we tended to to to just think about the victim the Survivor and and that’s good we still need to do that but we want to get the people the perpetrators that are actually doing it and stopping from doing it because if you help one lady

Who’s in a in a in a in a in a bad relationship then that perpetrator can go on and find another vulnerable individual uh to to do that so we have perpetrator programs now and that started um a couple of years ago and then the other thing is is bystander

Training we went to hul University and said can you develop some bystandard training particularly for student University students but we all need to stand up like in my company for for decades nobody has been allowed to get away with racist behavior and now nobody is allowed to get away with misogynistic

Language and and and behavior and that’s up to us to do it you’ll say to me it’s easy for you to do it you know you’re 6’4 and you’re 20 stone you know and you’re imposing I am but we need to be able to get the words across to people

Who don’t have that confidence that they can deescalate and just say hey up man I don’t like that that’s that could be my sister you’re talking about it’s out of order and when I started doing it I was really surprised that other people in the group my peer group said yeah you’re

Right John that is out of order so you if you’re the brave person then you will get people um helping you okay right we can move on I talk too much that’s my that’s my uh that’s my problem okay I think I’ve covered that anyway yeah it might be something to do

With counselors maybe uh have the same have the same thing so so how can communities supply for the grant funding well it’s on the website there’s a community safety fund the community response fund and the East Riding community safety partnership so you have effectively three funds there is the

Violent prevention partnership as well but the par prevention partnership actually works in a hub and spoke and within within those four local uh authorities and we have to pick High effect type um programs but as I mentioned there are about 190 um uh projects through the through the Humber

Region this is something like um 20 times any other police and crime commissioner in the history of humberside has actually done and the money coming in as well the 20 million is something like seven times more than any previous police and crime commissioner has brought into the to the um the Humber

Region um just move on okay and that just gives you some uh some uh Community safety fund some of the some of the details um that uh that you’ve got we’ve we’ve got about one and a half million allocated people can bid for anything up to um 35,000 535,000

Um and and the process is relatively easy if you if you used to actually put in a grant a grant form together but we do offer offer support and and we’ve already reached nearly 700 people in the East Riding so far and this does this only includes if you like the first two

Iterations because we we’ have not got to a situation where we can necessarily report on the third and the fourth has not been although it’s closed we working uh we are working through uh through that so and then I gave some details about the community response fund and

Usually it’s about £10,000 per location which puts a really near nice project together for for for for probably half a year something uh something like that uh and that you’ve had two in the in the East Riding witheren SE and and brington and there’s more to to go uh round three

Is um is is is being launched as we uh speak just to give you some details of the um East Riding community safety partnership um significant funds come into the East Riding about about 3/4 of a million pounds um uh funding goes through a partnership ship board I think

There’s one in a couple of weeks I should be coming um Matthew and and and Leo um are on there and we’ve got Matty Peach who’s a a a a chief superintendent now chairing it and somebody from the fire fire brigade uh Vice chairing it very effective and a very effective way

Of of of using of using cash I move on again I’m nearly finished did that move okay so how is the precept being being um where are we done that one there we are we got it thanks Leo I can’t even see in my glasses so

How is appr pre being used to offset government grant reduction and funding uh Frontline policing well there isn’t a government grant reduction we’ve never had any more as much money in in in policing but then we’ve got we’ve got a lot more office as well um and so what

I’m having to do is I’m having to use my reserves because because we had obviously significant inflation um earlier uh in the year um and a lot of that was financed by by the home office and the treasury I’ve got to say um all the things I do are are spent in year

What I preset for I’m actually it says 5 million but it’s actually going to be 6.8 million um because uh because Paul keeps going back and saying can I spend a bit more money can I spend a bit more money I’d like to do this I’d like to do

That and I’m a very nice person but give me value for it Paul that’s what I’m saying so and he does um so so one of the things I do get asked questions of quite you know um how much do I get paid well I get an allowance and uh and

It’s not an insignificant amount of money but then the job is is full on you know I’m at work every every single day I work a lot of evenings I work at weekends uh as well I do a lot of traveling down to Westminster and W Avia

And I answer them by this just two of the things that H I have suggested and and steered through the the budget because I have the whole police budget have been responsible for um paying for my salary every year 14 times over so the reduction the go the the the reduction in costs

Associated with training which I talked to the home office with a number of other police and crime Commissioners um about and got a u a different way of going on so we trained them through a more a more direct route rather than a three-year route that saved us about

£750,000 a year but that was this is old old news um it’s probably about a million pounds every single year that was an idea I pushed forward and the other one was the national police um Earth service um is a difficult Beast to actually navigate uh and fly and I was

Able to to to make changes within that to make part of it a national service which saved the humberside police 330,000 a year that pays that that return is 14 times my allowance so I think you’re getting me for for for nothing times 14 really so that’s all

I’ve got to say um I I realize I’ve I’ve talked probably a little bit longer than you wanted me to um if there are any questions or I don’t know if the chair wants Paul to to go through his process well I’m sure we’ve got questions a few for you Jonathan I’m

Just going to kick off and then Dennis has got a question so slightly turning it around how do you find working with East Riding is there anything that we can be doing at East riding to make your life easier um going forward really well I would again just doing a lot of the

Things that that I do all councils not just the East Riding have over over a generation backed away from youth provision it would be great if you could come back into youth provision and and and help me uh and we can do more together to do that because where there’s good youth provision

Particularly when it’s centered when you’re talking about antisocial behavior um uh I I I invest in I invest in on the South Bank in something called a youth zone it’s Horizon youth zones which which is a a a youth club that offers 20 different types of activities now you

Couldn’t have one of those in in the East Riding because they’ll only work where you’ve got a population of £100,000 pounds in close proximity uh so rural areas you’ve got to put some youth provision in I’m putting some of that in I’m helping and I have a project which

I’ve promised money to which is through the chitry um trust in in in in in Beverly which we will be talking about um in in in in coming weeks um and if you can if you can come in Partnership and do more because where there’s good youth provision particularly when it’s

Like a a a uh Horizon youth zone you can have you can have a 65% reduction in antisocial Behavior because you’re giving young people something to do you’re giving them those places and and I know and it doesn’t have to be necessarily Council youth provision you can use stakeholders third sector

Suppers or even just support sports clubs and ask them to do more because the infrastructure is there you don’t have to create because I’ve not created this infrastructure it’s just there so if you can do that I think that would be a really really useful thing thank you

Uh thank you uh commissioner that was really really interesting um you talked about um the increas in numbers of police officers you mentioned 2016 you had 1,600 and you out to 2,300 um I think 2016 was a bit of a low Point um we I know this because I was a

Candidate myself at the 2016 PCC election we just had a very bad hmic report um there were two things really one was response times and you’ve already covered that uh in in the call center um the other one which was a big issue was visible policing and what

People might say is bobb’s on the beat and you I knocked on a lot of doors and especially in some of the areas some of the more deprived areas in Grimsby I can’t remember the name of the ward but the one in grim that’s quite challenging

And the thing that came up all the time was we don’t see them we don’t see them and um that was a Common Thread so the question really um is now that you’ve got all these extra numbers um what are you doing in terms of visible policing so that people and

The public can be assured because you’re making great progress um clearly over the last few years but in order for the public to appreciate that the thing they’re going to really pin down his his Bob’s on the beat so I just wonder what you doing to try and address

That thing on there’s there’s there’s a number of things um first of all you’re absolutely right and I get exact asked exactly the same things in fact I was I was I was down in Cottingham just um a year and a half ago a public meeting and

One lady got very very um agitated about this um to me finger waging uh uh and what have you and it just so happened while she was talking to me I could see through if you know if you know um um Cottingham uh Hall you know Town Hall uh

It overlooks a car park doesn’t it and the main road where the zebra Crossing is and so I was looking as she was talking to me and it was all good stuff that she was saying I had all the answers and but she carried on and

Carried on and two police cars went that way one stopped at the the level crossing and then one came back and parked in the and parked in the uh the car pack he not answering any question I’m just it’s an amusing story really and so after she spoke I says well while

You’ve been talking you’re talking about policing there’s actually been three police cars and one’s in the one’s in the car pack and she said she turned around and look she says you’ve organized that and and and I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder we I do get a

Lot of questions of people as far as um but one thing you’ve got to and I’ll come on to the to the to the answer one thing you’ve got to be very cognizant of is that if there’s no crime happening in your area the the police are in the

Areas where there’s there’s there’s high high high crime and unless you’re sad in your front window all day the chances of you seen just happening to be coincidental when you’re looking at your front window to see a police officer or walking down the street although you do

See an awful lot more of police officers walking down the uh the high streets now is is is very it would be very unusual so what we have is uh is is uh and it’s an operational thing but I will touch on it um we have more neighborhood offices

Than we’ve ever had we have more response offices than we’ve ever had myself and the chief both view every single officer in humberside police as a neighborhood officer because all crime is is associated well most of crime is associated with uh with uh with neighborhoods how do you get the

Visibility up well you don’t necessarily need to have a police officer to get the visibility up you can give information out to my community alert to see what the police are doing you can actually follow some of the some of the hotpots and where where police um offices

Offices are so you can get more information but what’s happening is that when a police officer comes out of a a police station he doesn’t decide whether he turns left or right he looks at the statistics or the machine looks at the statistics of where the crime is likely

To be the hot spots those places where they are and that’s where the patrol um will will be we still have a long way to go we still have to perfect this but that is the that is the uh intention and you’ve never had more opportunity more

Offices in in in in your communities um than than than than now because if you go back several years is officers were very static because of the nature of the beast in my childhood you know there was a police um house and all the officer

Had was a bike and a telephone and he had to go back to his house to use the telephone and it would be it could be hours before before anybody came to uh to to to help him um so there’s never been there’s never been more officers

Than than than there are now um but it’s it’s a mobile response if you have something happening in your street that requires police you will get police there and police in in in numbers because they are they are adaptable and I and I actually um I’ll leave that with

With um uh with the chief uh to answer because he’s just passed me these uh these details and there’s there’s there’s loads of officers on there um but I’m sure he knows it it’s it’s tattooed on on his on his on his eye eye councilor Jeff

Uh thank you chair I have two questions if that’s okay um here Jonathan the first question Jonathan is um we were discussing at our pre meeting who are you directly responsible to is it is it the Her Majesty or his Majesty’s inspector of constabulary is that your

Direct no I’m responsible to you to the El yes yes yes that I know that’s the sort of usual answer yeah but your line manager who would your line manager I don’t have a line manager you don’t actually have one wow I’m I’m I’m the the decision maker and Prime over I have

An office of people who advise me um but I say what I’d like to do or they say have you thought about doing this and then we will go through a process uh and if the data backs it up um and it seems like a good idea and the community and

And you know don’t get me wrong I’ve been a ward member just like you have for for about 16 years in North Lincolnshire I have good Community ties most communities have the same fears the same the same aspirations the same the same problems um so I don’t need to live

In Beverly to know what the problems are because I’ve got the same problems in in in Barton upon Humber um and and so so really my at the end of the day if I do a bad job then I don’t get elected and

If I do a good job then I hope I get elected yes but you you you have been elected for a period of time um most of us if we do something wrong we’re hold before somebody above us who oh sorry you’re out right the police and crime

Panel the police and crime panel have um hold hold me to account based on my uh police and and and and crime plan right so we have meetings five times a year um sometimes more but they have to have four and and humberside one um has has

Five meetings and that’s made up of of two independent members and then councils um three from Hull three from the East Riding two from North Lin and two from north east east Lin is ched by an independent Sue Whitaker right second question okay um I wanted to ask this

Because we had a visit to Melton um a a few weeks ago interesting and um because you’re also responsible for the Humber EST aren’t you with the increased Ingenuity shown by drug dealers to transcend borders do the Humber Esty warrant greater police numbers well two things first of all um

Yes and you do get greater uh police numbers because of that and it’s it’s more of a dyamic um thing in that if the Humber was concrete then you could get from the North Bank to the South Bank very e easily so so we have more offices based

On the South Bank bank and the north bank then then we would have if there was no there’s no River there so we do get more offices as a result of as a result of that Dynamic if you understand um yes we have um a really really big

Port in in immingham probably the largest port by volume in the country and also um there is some Portage in in in in h still um but also we have a port in in in gou which is is where you you’re from but they tend to be looked

After by by border force and by by by specialist officers although um you could say they they do come under the chief Constable the chief Constable they the naties the naties um officers but we are very concerned about drugs coming in um and and one of the um uh things that

We are doing is we’re trying to because it’s not just in case them coming into the ports because they don’t come into the ports and then distribute it around the Humber region they come into the ports take it to Leeds Bradford Sheffield you know uh it’s then

Organized crime gangs that that that do what they do and then they import it into into all the uh the other regions so it’s not just the ports it’s also um the exporting metrop usually Metropolitan Council areas that are problematic which is why we have a an

Awful lot of of um autoptic automatic number plate recognition cameras because these these these pick up people um bringing drugs in and also British transport police have officers um at the rail routs coming into uh into because people coming from the communities usually young people with a napsack students looking people not they

Not the students I hope but um looking people come in and import it into the into the city that way or into Grimsby or skor that way also of course they can drop off at any point along the Hur EST they don’t have to make a be line for a

Port yeah but it usually comes through the port in in in containers I’m not saying that’s never happened but I’m not aware of that that ever being the case in in this in this region councilor white you’ve got a question I think I’ve got I’ve got two

Questions as well is that okay chair yeah okay so the first question um it relates to not reporting crime and um it says that they’ve got no confidence anything would be done I believe no chance of catching the perpetrator but earlier on when you were talking you

Actually said we had one of the highest arrest rates in the country and I’m just wondering why we’re not being able to get that message across to our residents that actually you are doing a good job okay um I I wish I could and and it’s not through lack of trying and

Working the problem the problem you’ve got is that only 15% of people in any year actually have a crime committed against them or become in contact with the crime uh and and and the perception is often based on what you your experience was the last time and I get

Asked this question many many times in in Parish town councils and any and any Community Gathering um and so a lot of people’s only 15% of people’s perception about crime and the control room area um of business is current that year the rest of it is historic and so if you had

A really really bad experience or a poor experience even five years ago then you still think it’s it’s crap because that’s your experience that’s your lived experience and until you have another experience and find a better uh experience the chances of your of your um mind being changed are very very uh

Slim but it’s incumbent on us to go out there and keep saying and repeating report crime because it is a good control room it’s it’s the best control room in in the country I tell people till I’m Lear in my face but what I say

To people as well is because I say oh well I was on for hours nobody respond I didn’t you know and I say to those people I said look here’s my card give me the time date and number that you rang on and I will see exactly

What was going on because it could have been that we had an IT failure at that point um and I’ll get back to you with that information and I must have given 200 cards out and said that to 200 people but you can’t guess how many people have got back to me can

You none so sometimes and I’m not I’m not playing it down because it’s a big problem that we have to overcome and I’m desperate to overcome it because I want to know where and I don’t want people to be feeling vulnerable and become victims

Of crime is um is we need to change that perception we need to encourage people and we try as hard as we possibly can um through uh through M humity alert and other ways and I’ve got a Target of 200,000 people on my community alert um

Uh which which the the Force and and the the pr people within the force are trying to achieve or other means so that every H every other household in the in the in the region has that within the hand uh in effect because it’s vital that we get the Intel and sometimes

People do it because they don’t think there’s any intel there so they don’t think there’s a crime there because or something that’s solvable anyway um but the Intel as I mentioned earlier if there’s been a van that looks a bit dodgy parked down your street a night one night and somebody’s burgled you

Could have maybe rung that in but there’s not there not a lot of information you might get a patrol I don’t know but if three people have said it over a period of a week then that’s good Intel and you would definitely get somebody somebody coming along so that’s

Why it’s vital and you know I I’ve sat in communication um conferences and and nobody’s nobody’s got a got an answer to actually you get that and of course the national picture doesn’t paint policing a very good in a very good light and that perception also is is is um that

Paradigm is enforcing other people’s paradigms um and then also my second question sorry I’m just getting the information up um on the recorded crime to October 23 um it’s looks as if for all crime uh there has been an increase um but yet you’d said You’ manage up to Christmas

This year it would be 20 million pounds that You’ you’ve managed to get in Grants and I’m just wondering we seem to be get you’ve got us a lot more money which is great but the crime still seems to be going up and I would have expected

With more money our crime rate would be coming down and I’m wondering why couple of things there first of all um a year- on-year uh increase in crime has been occurring but if you compare it to 2019 which is the last full year where it was not

Covid then the Improvement is still is quite marked I I guess those statistics are from the previous year not from 2019 yeah it said uh yeah 20 um 12 months to October 19 was just over 880,000 whereas 12 months to October 23 is um just over 89,000 because it’s

Because the lag behind covid crime is starting to gradually come up but humberside is is well below the national average of increasing crime it’s building back up from when it was virtually non-existent in the covid period but if you compare it to 2019 we are well ahead of every other area

Statistically just about on every single every single um Crime Time thank you Smith did you have a question oh yeah um thank for your presentation I’ve got two very quick questions um the first one is given all the changes that you’ve made to Recruitment and the training of staff

Are you seeing a better retention rate of officers because obviously training is quite expensive and and secondly how do we get um our smaller local groups how do they get in touch with you to access some of this funding to roll out um smaller projects in smaller areas to

Help get young people in engage they prevent prevented from you know becoming a nuisance yeah I nearly I nearly then cast cast a rod and pulled it out because that’s an absolutely fantastic question I’ve got a really really good answer for that’s one of the other problems with the degree route which

Humberside went down and I pulled them out of it um was and when you compare it to the nurses which went the same thing there was a 25% drop off so people left the profession um we in it’s called hipple plus which is the in-house

Training usually there’s a 10 to 12 on a bad year 12 and a half% drop off rate you know it’s not for people but by the time I got into into post the drop off rate through the degree route was 19% and it was only going one year we have a

Latent because those people as some of those people are still coming through that degree route we have a latent drop off rate of 28% so it is not the route to go through for a costeffective um uh result hipple dat Plus for people who have got degrees

Already is the roote and the drop off rate is just over 12 just over 10% compared to nearly 30% so it’s a it’s a really really good Prof uh uh question and shows the the the the the M the mdle thinking that was occurring around around um uh degree

Degree entry and the other one funding Roots I can give you a card or you can just go onto the onto the um Office of the police and crime commissioner’s website uh Google um grants and the the grant portfolios will will will come up um we usually get every time it’s open

We get about 80 80 people apply um the ones that do best are the ones that’s actually read the the the grant details beforehand some people apply and say I want some new windows in my church Hall and I’ve got £50,000 in reserves can you give us £35,000 which is never going to

Happen okay okay thank you very much uh yes uh Council M Master thank you thank you chair um one thing I wanted to ask you about was the uh Community speed Watch program yeah um now as counselors um we quite often get asked or get um told about speeding by

Residents um and I’ve been speaking to parishes about the scheme um and so far the response has been a little bit hesitant I mean one particular Parish did try it or tried to implement it but um the response that they got was that it was very

Personal um and they they didn’t want to catch their neighbors speeding well they would do basically um so what would your advice be um to try and convince them otherwise and um sort of give them a little bit of reassurance about the scheme okay I mean I like I really like the the

Community speedwatch volunteers I think it’s a very effective where those volunteers operate speed intense to reduce by about 50% irrespective of whether they’re there um or not so it’s a really really good thing so it should be encouraged and I would encourage Ward members to talk to their respective um

Parish councilors to do that one of the problems is some parishes are quite small and to get a team of five people so you can maintain three perhaps you is a big Ash ask and one of the the the the things that you can do is is combine

Parishes you know so you can have a team between two parishes that’s that’s one things um but one of the things that often comes up is sometimes the the aggressive nature of of people when they’re CAU when the you know some stop and some don’t and so what we’re going

To do is we’re going to provide um uh bodyw warn uh cameras to the uh to the to the people who are doing not to all of them there’ll be a camera between um a team and because of that we’re going to reduce the team to a team of two

Rather than team of three um we think we can do that but also um part of the uh the sepher roads Humber project that I’m I’m I’m I’m I’m doing um will be one point will be um interactive flashing speed signs so I will help Parish councils to to purchase their own speed

Sign um it’ll it’ll be like a 50-50 split something like that and if you can s um e the East riding to do the same then we probably be able to cover every Council uh in the uh in the east riding um these riding have already said that

We can use the street Furniture um to to to put these things on what I’d really like to do is I’d like to have a uh a volunteer that operates 247 that get takes the number um of the car and the the speed and and what have you um there

Is technology which is nearly available to do that but it’s a bit clunky and not really what we want so I’m writing a because I’m an ex engineer I’m actually writing a uh a description of what I want um this piece of Kit to do to to be

Able to um retain um numbers car numbers and speeds so that we can do a similar thing um with with a letter just like the the community speed watch um and so I’m actually writing a a a if you like a a a plan of what needs to be done and

Then I’m going to go to all the engineering universities or pixel Engineering University and say look if you’ve got students that can help us we’d like you to design one of these things just to try to um if you like uh load prime the pump because if if if

Manufacturers think there’s a think there’s an opportunity then a university might be able to develop it for them and then they can they can put the commercial um into it that’s one of the Five Points in the road safety um plan which I’ve announced for the first time

Today thank you very much um bearing in mind the time we’ve got we’ll just have one more question from Council arand please right thank you um bearing in minders side police covers four authorities does that throw up any specific problems or extra challenges not that I’m aware of um I

Mean humberside police is is is split into two um uh uh units North Bank and South Bank which have their own because of what I mentioned earlier you you know if you could move from Hall to Grimsby across a bridge there it would be a lot

Easier so there are two two there are two commands um and um I think they all get on really really well with with the local authorities and particular the ward members in the in the wards obviously there’s going to be some Personnel issues from time to time and

Ward members tend not to like officers to move you know they get used to an officer and actually Paul has promised that um um in his interview he promised it didn’t you Paul um that uh that he would restrict that as much as he possibly could certainly to two years

And if not three were were appropriate but we’re all aware that police officers retire and therefore promotion is required from within the ranks to to other police officers but uh but by and large I mean and my relationships are excellent our relationships with the Australian is excellent North Lish is

Excellent Northeast Lish and Hull is is excellent um as as well you know they’re all very engaged they like the community safety Partnerships the police get on really well and being very active and very responsive uh and so so not that I’m aware of unless you’ve got some

Particular things which I’m quite happy to talk about outside of this Okay Okay so we’ve got one extra question from Council Meredith and it’s just one question this thank you Mr chairman I’m afraid you’ve got one questioner three questions we’ll just have one one you have to choose which question you want

To ask the most In fairness then actually also could I declare a quick interest I’m member of a community speed watch group in South cave in Dale Ward I didn’t think it would be coming up but thank Council Master I’ve created more work for Liz um so well I think Council

Hammond’s had far too easy a ride so far so I’m going to ask the awkward questions um so we were talking about collaborative works and um actually Jonathan you said as you know commissioner that a lot of work goes into reducing crime and that saves money

In the long run now I was perhaps hoping 134s of 330 Grand could be spent on on youth facilities especially for young adults which in turn could help keep people active and in the right way and help reduce crime and the question therefore is what collaborative work could be done with local authorities

With the police with the role of police and crime commissioner to long-term see crime reduced and people’s activities and actions focused towards more healthy Pursuits well I just want to throw Le under the bus but think just I was actually want to come in at the end about what Jonathan said about youth

Provision in in the East Riding earlier that’s something that we’ve definitely identified myself and councel Ain since the new cabinet formed in May that we need to take more of a leading roles and Authority in providing a universal youth offer and we’re currently working together with the relevant officers

Including Matthew tempton to uh come with a plan for that and we’ll be presenting that actually to the next um Community safety partnership meeting which is potentially either next month or the month after depending on who who can attend so we are we’re definitely looking to do that I think in terms of

The Wider working together me and Jonathan get on really well which I think is a positive so we we’re happy to work as closely as we can clear hold bill is a great example of where the council and the police have worked really closely together uh to tackle

Serious crime in in our area so yeah I think we are looking to work ever closer together and for the benefit of of the residents of the East riding as I said much with councelor Smith’s question I knew there’d be a good answer I just wanted to hear

It okay well thank you very much for that and thank you very much for a very interesting and in-depth um presentation it’s been very fascinating we’ve got one or two um recommendations I mean I think what we’d like to get from you Leo probably is a briefing note on on that

Subject you’ve just been talking about if we can um the second one is um can we get an update on your uh the safer roads plan at some point in the future whether whether it’s next year or whether it’s in a year’s time or sooner sorry could I

Just come in on that yeah I mean I was hoping to roll that out before Christmas but we’re dealing with the minister of transport and actually we’re dealing with one of his one of his um uh officers guy I know uh very well and it’s been delayed for two weeks because

He’s been called is a part of reserves and he’s been called up to actually do his his um uh his reserve so it’s paused so it’s going to be the new year before we do that but you’ll be um as soon as we’re able to release it I I’ll make

Sure it’s it’s all the details are released to you thank you very much and I mean the final recommendation for us is to thank you very much for taking your time to come and see us today it’s you know it’s very important that we know what you’re up to and uh and you

Can tell us what we can do to help you more in the in the East Riding have you got another recommendation Richard well I was thinking sh might be wise to commend the the savings broughts the role and the efficiencies and I’m thinking of that specifically with encouraging engagement

As was mentioned it’s a very datadriven exercise these days and if I mean as Bo counselors we all know people say to us there’s antisocial behavior in my area whatever it may be there speeding but if it’s not reported then the police don’t act upon it because they go to where it

Is being reported because that’s where the problems perceived not NE necessarily where the problem is so I was just thinking it might be prudent to have two recommendations one to encourage engagement and to promote the work that’s being done and two to do so specifically with a view to getting

Further engagement from the public to improve the accuracy and the quantity of the data to better direct um deployment in future if if that makes sense that makes perfect sense Richard thank you very much so thank you very much can we we’ll just take a five

Minute break if that’s all right um and then we’ll get the chief C chance have a go So SC Very first you there right if we can uh we can make a start again please councelor Meredith will be here in a minute with multiple questions right well we’ll press on um we’ve got one one person who’s not here but he’ll be here in a second I’m sure so uh Chief

Coun can we call you Paul is that all right yes thank you thank you Paul for taking time out of your very busy schedule um to come and uh tell us what you’re going to tell us and I’ll I’ll leave it over to you thank you thank you

Very much uh just before I start it was if I break out in a cold sweat here you’re going to have to forgive me but it feels like I’m about to back a politician up which is I don’t think ever happened to me before so it was but

Uh sensible Sensible yeah I’ll move on but this just want to pick up three points in terms of some of Jonathan’s answers there I think he’s actually sold himself slightly shorten one of them as well and I never thought I’d ever see that in my life either uh first one was

Uplift uh in terms of uplift there was a a talk of we’ve got over 2,300 officers now what’s really important I think for you all to understand is with you’ve had two forms of uplift here you’ve had the uplift for the previous crime commissioner and then kind of reinforced

By Jonathan where the forer efficiencies uplifted 300 odd officers onto the books and then there’s been the government uplift uh so which has resulted in that 6700 offices now in relation to it our establishment for warranted officers is 2,222 so it’s all the twos if we’re going to play the bingo game however

We’re currently as you then worked out going hold on what’s going on you’ve got over 2,300 uh John has allowed me to be as Pokey and as audacious as uh I can be but very very supportive in kind of linking in terms with the policing Minister through and please not for any

Minutes but the Metropolitan police’s adject failure to ever achieve their uplift the government very very keen the national levels were met so we’ve been funded by the government facilitated through Jonathan to go above that number really really important at some point we will fall back to all the twos but in

Effect you’re going to have an extra 100 cops for a period of time funded by the government uh and I think that’s that’s really important to know and understand but then when you’re battering me in three years why is your numbers dropped because that’s where they should be

Because that funding won’t be there forever but look it it was you make you make hey when the sun shines that extra 100 officers that a lot of damage can be done with 100 officers during that time uh secondly I just want to go to the

Hester question if I may uh that kind of popped up kind of earlier where the actual force does get extra money in terms of the estery uh hesai police hosts uh the regional Marine unit uh and we’re one of the few forces in the UK that have a fully operational Marine

Unit to deploy on ourselves we have a number of boats from Little inshore uh kind of dingies we have search capability dive capability but also there is we have two boats I call it a medium boat and a big boat uh they’ve got Posh words for it I’m sorry it’s

Just I’m just a cop but in effect we’ve now got an offshore capability which has been funded by the government in terms of that we have the capability as well to deploy Firearms officers which we occasionally do researches working in Tandon with border Force now you talked

In terms of that and as you’ll gather everything’s going to have an operational flavor with me but in terms of serious and organized crime I would like to tell you something now but I will not and I cannot but in the new year sometime I’m sure Jonathan but

Myself will be having discussions with you about some massive successes but through more clandestine activity that have been made in relation to our ports and in in particular around drug seizures which is probably as biggest of anything in the time of humberside poli’s existence uh I guarantee you it

Is going on because that’s one of my key areas of focus which I will I’ll come on to it’s there we are highly effective and that I absolutely promise you uh and just the uh the the third area if I may in terms of the crime

Uh and in terms of crime targets noting crime has gone up in 2019 humberside adopted a really we had a clear a really clear position during covid a lot of forces around the UK uh made quite clear decisions uh that you know kind of they locked down as such our approach during

Covid is we’re here to protect and we still that the police is the one service that should not fault down along with your military and a number of others so you still had Bobbies out there in the our community we undertook an operation we termed it op Galaxy and it then

Rolled into a full-time team there on after where we used the opportunity of covid to roll out a massive policing operation which lasted about eight or nine months but in effect we hoovered up every outstanding criminal that we actually had on our books great fun I

Have to say and and the right thing to do because hey they’re all at home it’s great knock on the door and they had to be there but jokes aside when you talk about it was and then you look at our figures because there’s reasons for this why our

Arrest rate was abnormally High compared with other places in the country what that resulted in in 2019 we had a a bigger crime drop than anywhere else what also happens as you come out of covid when life starts to call it kind of find its natural level

Again kind of what you’ve done is as went up a little more compared with other forces you look at the four-year period you look at the government targets we’ve had one of the biggest reductions in crime I’ve got no worries about that and I’m going to talk in

About two or three minutes about actually how we’re repeating that operation time and time again but likewise I mean John covered a lot of really great stuff there I think it’s really really important that you know the detail now in terms of a presentation I know in the pre-brief

You’ve given me some headings I’ll talk briefly I’ll push through them and I can see as a group you like questions which to me is an absolute dream because I would rather be interactive so what I’ll do is I’ll push through the presentation quickly as I can but still make it

Meaningful and then ask away I’m quite comfortable to go wherever you want uh in in terms of me look I’ve been the deputy I was the deputy under Lee work the previous crime commissioner this police and crime commissioner it’s a really really positive place to work my vision sustained Excellence it’s really

Simple I am operational cop to the core uh that’s what Jonathan’s bought that’s what you’re going to get uh I don’t talk in kind of as such I won’t talk around government policies I will generally talk about things that we will do to make a difference uh however we’re not

Prepared where we can to let one element go backwards you get simple really simple approach but a quite old-fashioned approach to policing it shouldn’t change because you shouldn’t see a huge different from that effect between myself and Lee because is the deputy and Lee’s understudy for that

Period and that four years is that consistency that’s held us really really well uh if it doesn’t if it’s not broken you don’t necessarily always replace it now one of the questions that was asked is what are my priorities I mean you’ll have no doubt policing we we have

Priorities wherever we look we have hundreds of crime types I giggled in the question for Jonathan about who’s your line manager uh I could actually argue also I don’t have a line manager I appear to be accountable to the entire world I sit here today it’s to the public through Jonathan potentially to

The Home Secretary the policing Minister however what is really good in terms of simple guides Jonathan’s police and crime plan but what we’ve done is we have we work in placing and we’ve renewed it here in humberside to something we call a control strategy so there is multiple multiple priorities

Where wherever we look but we take a number of data sets one what is the crime number two what do we know clandestinely about the intelligence number three what are National priorities because I have to balance local and National because there’s big ugly stuff going on that you don’t

Necessarily know around I have to keep you safe I have to keep you safe from terrorism as well as I have to place streets in relation to ASB so every Everything is a choice and then we also use what we call a morale score so we actually also factor in kind of local

And Community crime and from that we’ve come with five broad areas which we call a control strategy which we have a senior leader in my organization owning and to that it helps us Direct on a daily a weekly a monthly basis where we a portion the results sorry resources

And that’s based on threat risk and harm uh the five areas are for us it’s acquisitive crime when someone steals something basically that does include housebreaking burglary uh organized crime an area where I’ve got a huge focus on because the damage it does to our society is absolutely Untold and

Never should we yield to serious and organized crime Public Safety and just I’m clear what I mean about Public Safety that would be or in kind of more general terms we would call it public protection people that perpetrate offenses such as vog type offenses domestic abuse offenses against children

Modernday slavering so you know there’s a lot of real big hitting areas in that and that’s an area as a force we’ve put a lot of the investment in terms of the uplift into uh and then violence an obvious one and offenses of vulnerability because people haven’t got

A right to actually pick on those in our society that are less capable or there’s a form of vulnerability where they can’t look after themselves and I would hope you would say that that’s that’s fairly common sense specials we’re quite good for specials we’ve recruited a lot John’s already

Touched on it I’m not going to cover it what’s the biggest problem with our special constabulary they keep joining to become the regulars I personally as the chief have not got a problem with that I call it try before you buy uh it was however it was people will talk

About an era where we had 300 400 special cables yeah there was an ERA because I’ve got the data I also know that with the specials I’ve got at the moment the 120 the output that I’m getting is higher than when I had 400 uh and there’s a clue there because 200 of

Them aren’t inactive uh everyone we’re getting they are really good committed people will the numbers go back much higher yes they will and we’re having recruitment process after recruitment process but likewise so I’m clear while we’re going through an accelerated recruitment drive and it’s still in

Train at the moment and we have for the past kind of seven years it’s not a surprise that people are joining the specials getting a taste deciding they like law enforcement and policing and joining that’s not a bad thing that’s a gain to the policing family in terms of

East riding and you the scheme in terms of council tax and Jonathan alluded to it earlier it’s fantastic because that’s local people that’s in a volunteering form and you’re supporting them supporting us supporting your communities I think that and I will publicly say I I think that is to be

Commended uh but on the presentation in front of you uh there’s a nice cheesy picture there from your local specials we use them for Fairly bespoke elements of placing I mean if we have a special with a special skill set as such if they come from a computer background of

Course we’ll use them in that area but by and large we try to put them into the communities why you’ve touched on it earlier yourselves it’s about a visible impact at the key times so into terms of nebor neighborhood placing antisocial behavior and in particular Community kind of community crime and I don’t

Think that’s that’s a bad area outcomes right I I’ll go a little oldfashioned on you here so you you you talked of the arrest rates earlier okay let’s just talk some really really basic facts and figures because there seem to be an interest there so so let’s let’s

Talk through that as in April of this year perect 000 population humberside arrested about 16 people per thousand population the national average was 11 so we appear to arrest more people here than other places uh now we’ve undertaken a number of operations and I’m going to come on and talk about

Operation Shield soon what we do is we have some fairly focused periods where we collate our resources and have the Maximum Impact possible it’s not possible to do that 24 hours a day seven days a week every month of the year because I would break my star frankly

However in for really really focused periods we can do it to high effect now in terms of the graphs and I’m not a great one for talking facts and figures I will not do a Disraeli on you in terms of stats but we Mick more people than

Anyone else and we detect more crime than anyone else so in the last hmic inspections for the detection rates or the outcome rates as they’re termed now we would move anywhere between 1 and fifth we’re currently lying third in the country as of this week however it

Doesn’t count because we’ve got a lag at the moment it doesn’t account at the moment for the results for operation Shield I’m sitting here as your Chief Constable really really confident that we’re going to sit comfortably in the top quarle for a rest rate and detection rate that’s really oldfashioned policing

What do you expect us to do more importantly the people representing you what do they expect you either prevent the crime and if someone does perpetrate a crime try and lick them try and detect it and that’s fundamentally what the police do and I don’t really want to get

Much more sophisticated than that but it was I think that’s a a really really important Point uh Staffing there’s there’s some figures in terms of of what you’ve got it it was I and I know from I mean I know a number of you uh we’ve put extra policing in

Particular around community policing it was I mean response in the East riding alone you got 178 PCS I remember having the debate two or three years ago as the deputy about what do we do because if I followed pure crime data the number of response officers in the East Riding

Would have been about 30 less uh and there’s a dichotomy there because it’s quite easy if I just followed the P data they would have all gone to Hull might have gone to grim by areas of higher impact however everybody has a right for a policing service and its other areas

So in terms of the investment that’s gone in in terms of the uplift of neighborhood policing Market Wheaten was an area we were really concerned about in terms of lower level areas driffield was an area so we’ve enhanced the neighborhood policing provision in those areas but also reopened the response

Bases which is the 247 placing I popped out to driffield two days ago it was absolute pleasure they didn’t know I was coming which was even better because I got them all at once as well uh but had some really great conversations with the teams in there the wonderful thing about

Locations like that is the different facets the pillars rural crime Force neighborhood teams response teams the investigators they turn to operate more as a family unit absolutely highly highly effective but the commitment around that you’ve got the commitment from me Bridlington I I don’t care what

The rumors are it’s not closing and it never was I’ve heard some ridiculous rumors quite frankly in the past two or three years we’ve reopened driffield now for a 247 base we’ve reopened pocklington and likewise with the resources we got we try to achieve the same currently at Bruff as well what’s

Really important that’s where we put the resources so hence while we took the number of your response offices higher what you see there is what you get but there’s other things that you can’t see there because our response in terms of public protection and the uplift we’ve

Got pan Force units but just talking for the North Bank because you’re going to be interested about kind of yourselves here for theast riding we’ve just formed da safeguarding teams so for the North Bank that’s 60 officers but they operate across the whole of the North Bank

They’re based at cluff Road why are they cluing in the city because that’s where the cell block is and they need to be there when perpetrators of domestic abuse are arrested they then take it take the partnership angle and the work with East Riding council is very very

Good in terms of that and the integrated resources but they specialist that then take the prisoners or and then then will deal with both the prisoners they will deal with the victims and they will kind of deal with the work with the council after so highly effective so it doesn’t

Sit there it’s not obvious to you but there’s a massive growth there serious and organized crime teams I will come into that uh kind of very shortly because they’ve had a significant effect on these riding and I want to in particular talk about Brenton shortly for you touched on violence against

Women and girls I think I’ve just strayed into that area we we have a new assistant chief cable started with this Lisa Hogan she will take on the role as the forc lead for violence against women and girls uh working to the National lead Maggie blly uh violence against

Women and girls it’s something we do as policing we’re passionate about it we’ve got a real real Focus so you don’t have your own Vault vog team this is our bread and butter what we have is we have a focus here as with our control strategy on all elements of

Vulnerability in particular on VG fences so from the local performance meetings all the way going through them a daily pay Setter basis to what we would do and the overview it we’ll get from myself monthly we look in particular at offenses of Da offenses against children offenses against vulnerable people in a

Family setting where they will get an enhanced service and in particular from either public protection units our PVP as we call them which take offenses will take offenses in particular of rape and sexual offenses against women to our specialist now domestic violence teams or aaet teams as we call them and that’s

Why we’ve formed specialist teams and even take in the whole different crime types around VA for specialized units within them who are really really good they get additional training and they’re able to make a greater impact if I was going to be really thoughtful about it not only do they

Make a greater impact in terms of they know the points to prove they know how to get the people into the criminal justice system but the better thing and the most impactive element I would say around that is they make big strides in preventing is the rehabilitation element

Working with the criminal justice system working with probation working with the courts to stop reoffending they’re making big strives in terms of increased reporting because Under reporting in ter of offenses in particular of domestic abuse and sexual offenses against women in a domestic setting women in particular are hugely under reported so

We’ve seen a big rise in not our acute offending meaning here and now that his hisorical offending that’s not a bad thing that is a good thing because it allows us to deal with historic perpetrators and stop reoffending confidence uh it was you’ve uh it was a smoke when I when I heard

The question earlier after everything that’s going on you know kind of what it is around kind of you know public confidence public confidence as you will see from I mean we’ve got Beverly here pushing through to Bridlington ghoul it all hits the right area of the schore from anywhere between three generally to

About 4.5 uh there are if I’m going to be candid and Frank and and I am as a character uh National reporting and certainly the Press haven’t always been as positive as they could be uh also kind of probably one of the issues and it’s one of the issues I have to reflect

On as Chief constable uh you know people and certainly in terms of media reporting don’t want to look at the hundreds and thousands of daily bits of work that we do which are regarded as a good news story they’re looking at the things we get wrong now we’re not

Perfect we deal and pleasing deals with risk we make risk-based decisions every day every day we will probably get something wrong I accept that what we strive to do is learn from it on a daily basis because it’s really really hard in non-specific cir cumstances where we can

Negate every risk we we will go on what evidence that we have at the time uh however an area that I think we need to get better I know Jonathan is very passionate here and we’re working now really closely with our comm’s department is probably better use in

Terms of social media starting to push into that space and we’ve been pushing really hard in the last six seven eight months working with local media Outlets uh and we’ve seen a real change actually certainly in terms of some of the repor in of the I’m not going to name them but the

Bigger papers in this area where there’s been a a far more positive relationship with but going on to relationships going on to what we want to achieve as a police I’ll probably kind of move on to op Shield uh I’ll be disappointed if you you hadn’t heard about it in some form

Or another but I made a fair a fairly clear commitment when I started as Chief Constable that we weren’t happy with where we sat just because we’ve had one good uh hmic inspection really really quite simple I know what we’re about we’re about preventing crime we’re about detecting crime we’re about keeping

People safe and without being sophisticated that’s what I feel we’re about uh the best way to do that is the bottom line is do we know have we got good intelligence do we know who the people the perpetrators of serious crime in our communities are well yes we do so

We’ve got two choices we wait for them to commit crime and then we go and get them or we can actually say enough’s enough well in terms of that an operation Shield three months ago we started to sustain three to four month long operation where I publicly stated

In the Press we’re going to take a front foot we created additional capacity in a number of ways uh you can’t do it forever but you can’t keep the approach going kind of in different degrees forever but we set out in three phases phase one was to have a really hard

Focus month to five weeks where we targeted those that create or cause the most harm in our communities serious and organized crime so what am I talking about the people that deal drugs in your streets the people that bring large quantities of drugs in the people that

Deal with really some of the darker offenses against our community you know and you in particular I’m talking modern day slavery I’m talking about trafficking of people sex offenses you know organized crime kind of you know some of the real Grim stuff we’ve taken the fight to them uh and I joked

Jonathan said coming through a door near you soon I apologize it was the best cheesy line I could come up with but the bottom line we’re not going to wait for that crime to be committed so across the whole of humberside I said you can expect to see hundreds of arrests so far

As of this week we’re on 675 so it was that’s fairly significant now for the East Riding it’s uh different I was going to say when I speak to different people about East Riding you get different perceptions of what East Riding is I find you a bit

Like a bag of licorice all sorts because it’s quite Pleasant in the packet but you got some real quite challenging areas and PE people forget that here and also you got some real different flavors of placing uh so I mean hence the creation of the rural crime team because

It’s important we protect our rural communities but one of the areas where you as the counselors and and as this as the Council have repeatedly fed back to us over years was about Bridlington when you look at the index and you look at some of the poverty that sits in

Particular in the Bridlington area Bridlington is a great place it’s a vibrant place it’s a wonderful Community but there’s some real challenging crime that sits in that area there’s also some fairly challenging social needs in some of the Estates uh and and that’s known and I think it’s it’s known very well

Within the the Council and I know you kind of you adapt your services accordingly uh county lines is something that’s talked about but in effect call it Regional and organized drug dealing which goes from area to area what it does is it prays on children it prays on

The vulnerable and on young people in order to get them hooked into a call it a drug mule or a you know a dealing based scenario I can’t go into the details again so it’s like I’m almost teasing you to some deg degree however I think it’s really important around you

Said we did you said it’s an issue so something has been done about it in fact we’ve been doing something about it for the past 18 months we just haven’t told you because we couldn’t tell you because some things have a more clandestine flavor for us when operation Shield

Started the first element of that focused as call it the end of that kind of you know that more intelligence pH for us the work we’ve been doing quietly for 18 months where a number of arrests were made uh we’ve probably had the biggest effect in terms of that

Community and then pushing across the right wider East Riding because drugs doesn’t just sit in one area it goes from area to area to area so this proliferates and pushes into the whole of these riding but I can confidently say we’ve ripped the absolute heart of the serious and organized crime up there

Within brington there’s over 64 arrests 64 doors went in in a really short period uh and it’s all intelligence base that was cooked up over a significant period of time is there more to come yes there is more to come the real key aspect about what we do to it next that

Scene aspect is what we do with your local Authority what we do with our partners we call it clear hold build where we’ve gone in we’ve cleared it because that’s what we do as the police we can be quite clear we can be quite aggressive quite audacious which we have

Been the important thing is what then goes thereafter that we hold the community is provision and you’ve touched on it in terms of young people in terms of substance diversion you know because you said what can be done there are areas where you’ll never go wrong if areas going to youth and actually

Dealing with people that deal with kind of that are hooked on substance misuse uh as you you know will often get in kind of those areas uh the results are in front of you but actually taking it to an East Riding uh perspective for yourself with over 114 people arrested

And so far 61 child charged going to court of them a number of them have been remanded because we did the pre-work with the crown prosecution service where there was pre-agreed charges prior to the arrest uh I hope that’s good news for you I know for us in policing terms

That was significant a lot of people look to our big towns and cities here we didn’t we looked to your communities because we understood that level of harm that was doing is there more to come well operation Shield hasn’t finished yet we’re now in the Third Kind of phase

At the moment then there will be a lull and then we’re coming again at a time not too far in the future because we’re going to do it again and again and again what you’ll always get from me is I am a very operational Chief I won’t be

Sophisticated in terms of it we use intelligence is the lifeblood of our service we’ll deploy what assets we can to learn what we can and then we’ll go again we’ll frankly just go and get the people I I can’t be kind of clearer than that uh

Single online home it was one of the areas so sorry if it’s a bit ecliptic but it was it was the questions that that were posed uh you know in terms of us about how we’re utilizing technology probably this is one of the biggest areas now Jonathan has uh touched on it

So we’ll go back to the control room uh Jonathan talked about the low abandonment rates what we’re looking now is how can we become more sophisticated even more we’ve gone over to a new crime management system which hopefully helps our police officers and our police staff but more importantly it’s a system with

Technology advanced enough now that I know come whether the storm of or kind of the storm of time probably for the next 10 20 years because I’ve got to look ahead as technology changes but in terms of how people can come to us and those elements of Under reporting and

Those different ways other than the traditional ways to speak to us we’ve uh used a new system called single online home where your communities can access us they can report crime through kind of obviously a virtual appointment through online reporting where it can go directly and straight into a crime

System which is absolutely great we’ve utilized kind of uh some money and funding from the National Police scientific Network as well which is helping us be the pilot around there allowing us to align the reporting system with our crime system and hoping to use that as a national pilot throw

That away what does that mean for you yet again we’ve got different ways where members of the public can find a different way to actually speak to us so you’ve got your neighborhood policing teams they’re not going anywhere they are I I do believe they’re an absolute non-negotiable you’ve got your response

Teams you’ve got your traditional ways of reporting to us and now we’re looking for kind of you know what can technology also offer and what we find is it opens a different click or section of the community and we find out different things around that but in terms of use

Of technology for us it’s an absolute massive thing as a force one of the areas that we’re currently exploring with uh kind of a big commercial provider at the moment is how we can now explore Community confidence but during the life of a crime just like you can

Track your package when it goes through come from a parcel Depot how can I actually examine what confidence looks like from the point the Call Comes in so then the point it goes and it becomes a crime to the point that they meet or speak to an officer to the point then

It’s finalized so we know at that point where we’re letting someone down or where that service isn’t so good that’s not there it won’t be immediate but it will be coming to us soon and no other police force is currently doing that in the country be there’s a lot of interest

Around that so in terms of that use of technology and where we’re trying to be creative and certainly kind of use that element of innovation there are also other areas where stepping into I’ll take it there to questions sorry if it was ecliptic I’ve just

Responded to it was the that brief I was given before but I’d be delighted to answer question well thank you very much for a very comprehensive uh uh look at what you’re what you’re doing and uh it’s um it’s it’s brilliant what you are doing and the about two months ago I

Said to you earlier on that I was I was watching channel 4 news and there was a it was being transmitted from from cluff Road I think and it it was revolving around the response that people get when they ring in so they are immediately put on to somebody who actually will sort

Out their particular problem rather than going into the mix and waiting till it comes out at the end so I mean it was it was uh it made you proud to be involved in the area that we are now and I know in the past I was I was high sheriff and

Uh you know we I got very involved in what what you were what you were doing and um one of your predecessors who was I can’t remember his Christian name but Hollis um Tim Hollis I don’t know whether you’re saying he had the the hardest handshake of anybody I’ve ever

Met um but anyway that’s that’s rather frivolous but uh so Dennis you’ve got a question yeah um thanks Paul um and really interesting to see the the contrast between the operational and the Strategic from the two of you I really appreciate that um thinking about the East Riding um and crime sometimes think

We can get full lulled into a false sense of security I was at a a training conference recently with other leaders from other local authorities and we were talking about this and uh the guy from Hackney was uh was the leader or of the Council on the cabinet was saying that

In the last week there was two murders um and the week before that there was two and then he himself had been stabbed and you kind of realize that here in the East Riding you know we we’re in this um rather fortunate position and now I know

And you touched on the the pockets of deprivation and we have them in Beverly we have them in Bridlington um and I understand that but looking at the the figures that we presented I was trying to sort of have a look see what trends there are where where we could be

Concerned and and the one that seems to have jumped most in E riding is shoplifting which I suppose in the in the scheme of things is not a huge crime but when you were talking about acquisitive crime and organized crime and violence um those things seem fairly static in East

Riding we then have a jump in something like shoplifting which is which i’ bit interesting your comments on that as to whether this is to do with deprivation as well that even in other parts of humberside the doesn’t seem to be the increase in shoplifting that has been in in the East Riding

So what’s your overall view then on the on on the East Riding as a as a safe place to live and the observation that certain crimes which might be fairly low level in the scheme of things are the ones that seem to be challenging for

Us my comments of East riding and uh it was as I live in East Riding during the week it was I think is a great place to live so uh kind of let me be clear on that uh I described you as a bag of licorice all sorts and I do apologize

Because I mean there’s no humor there you’ve hit the nail on the head in terms of don’t be lulled into a full sense of security what an area such as this gives is just different placing CH challenges you have challenges in terms of kind of rural geography so in terms of and

That’s hence you’ve got the commitment in terms of the basis and that’s spreading them out to make sure everyone has that right if a 999 call comes in they’ll be answered immediately the formation of the rural crime team uh rural crime is more than Badger baiting and an elements of offenses against

Wildlife if someone in a rural community gets their home burgled I’m sorry I’m really oldfashioned that’s rural crime because that that impacts that Community that’s people’s way of life uh and they are some of the you know the real acute issues we face but you do have in East

Riding murder still happens out here there is still serious and organized crime as we’ve talked about earlier with bradlington there are areas of deprivation uh shoplifting shoplifting has risen all over Humber side and what you’ll realize is well what if you just look into and it was the commentary kind

Of recently uh in the press and the BBC and in particular from the Home Secretary you see that’s been a national Trend uh the national Trend in terms of would I be surprised there is a you know a crisis in terms of you kind of living standards at the moment and I see

Shoplifting going up now my instant response to this if you look at the outcome rate which is the detection rate R so basically how many people do we catch and bring to to Justice you’ll see humberside police has got one of the highest rates nationally uh it’s also

Been an area of huge Under reporting the bits that I recover or that I regard as your Chief Constable that your in terms of that element of low-level crime there’s a commitment that every crime if there is a viable line of inquiry will be investigated that’s now a national

Commitment that came out in the pill report that is why I’ve invested so much in neighborhood placing teams and your locality teams because them dealing with local people who are local offenders uh the detection rate is higher we’re catching more so it doesn’t mean you know it doesn’t mean that the position

Is uh is all Rosy just because we catch more because you would argue actually when you look at the percentage we we’re catching just a fraction of that so is there more to do so in terms of we’ve got dedicated leads in terms of the force for shop crime we’re work working

With the key chains uh and kind of working with a number of organizations looking to where we can to work with them to design it out and you know some of the areas in the communities let me give you a worked example Cottingham for instance and Cottingham Town Center

Because there was a specific with worked on specific issues there with the neighborhood teams in particular dealing with issues or perceptions uh you know around kind of you know some of the youth and kind of this a ction in key times of where people tend to congregate

And then Associated crimes do I regard it as out of control absolutely not when it’s happening are we arresting more are we doing our job yeah we are do does it overly concern me no it doesn’t however it’s something we need to watch thank you very much councelor

Jeff thank you chair once again I have to two questions if that is permissible Co when you when you or your colleagues who came to us last um few months ago we discussed the rule T force and the Staffing and it seems to me that the Staffing hasn’t

Increased uh during those those months uh and yet the problems in the rural area have increased I’m wondering if that’s partly due to the fact that the yellow fin motorbikes have increased to a number of 10 or is there another reason because if the the rule um problems are increasing

I would have assumed the Royal task force numbers in the police force would also have reflected that numbers have increased it was so in in terms of the rural task force it wasn’t that long ago the rural task force didn’t exist so it was because it

Was a team that I proudly put into place so the rural task force now with the uh sergeant and the six constables I hope so because I sat around the table with them not two days ago and had a cup of tea so they’re cing me if that’s the

Case uh but it has but in terms of that the commitment to the rural areas such as pocklington we’ve increased the placing footprint there that’s more dedicated cops not cops on patrol driffield we put the two extra in uh help me here sorry I’m just losing the

Names in my head Market weaton uh additionality has gone into Bridlington and also the commitment for horn SE and withy so it was that is the best way for me to give you a dedicated resource because if I put it on response it will get lost into volume what I want to give

You is I want to give you a local cop a local p pcso where you know their face and you can go to them they’ve increased the rural task force was 1 and four now it’s 1 and six uh and sitting there with the team I want them though however to

Do something very very slightly different the real task force because then the local Bobbies your community beat officers that I talked of your community beat officers will have a beat and work the beat I want the rural task force to be able to move to where the

Problems are they also will be able to work on specialist elements of rural crime and that I do specifically mean you know offenses against the wildlife act for instance Badger baiting air coursing which wouldn’t be an issue kind of Elsewhere so likewise we’ve got four cbls up here there’s the sergeant and

Then we’ve got two on the South Bank so we move them and then we augment them with the uh with the neighborhood policing teams and and the local teams join them for the specific operations so if anything as an area we’re really really proud of uh it’s really good but

The cops have only arrived recently or the extra cops so you’re right from that perspective can I just add add to that actually as well um I know that in my area you know a rural area we’ve uh we have a dead we have a one of the police

Officers who is connected to the uh neighborhood watch and I think that’s a really good way of of of getting input or you know because there’s a you know there are so many eyes out there of people who are actually in the countryside who who are seeing this and

If we can if they’ve got if they got if they’ve got that lead into an officer then it’s a it’s a brilliant way of getting information pass over I think almost to you know the point before but but from councelor Healey it was that’s one of the areas that’s so great about

East Riding because the community are really connected we get we’ve got independent advisory groups the other three areas we set it up very very slightly differently here for the East Riding understanding there’s different flavors and the communities can be quite kind of geographically split up so there’s a different flavor in a

Different area which isn’t a shocked because that’s how Society works so we’ve got we’ve got a number of local area action groups that are feeding us feeding us information from the communities but we’ve probably got the most vibrant uh neighborhood watch scheme here the most vibrant kind of

Community speed watches uh the community is very very engaged uh and that’s an area will keep pushing thank you councilor stelle thank you chair um Paul it’s such good news that that you you know you’re arresting such a high number of people etc etc and I

Just wonder do you ever have a sense of frustration that you’re fighting against the legal system in in respect of um the number of cases the number of people you’re arresting the case has to be C heard in a court and the there’s such a delay in that and during that interval

Period you have to keep an eye on what the offender is doing unless of course they have been given a prison reman sentence but if they’re out on bail you’ve got to keep your eye on the ball of what they’re doing so and and I just

Wonder uh if that gives you that sense of frustration and if perhaps this is a role for the PCC Jonathan to be then an advocate on behalf of the police force to the legal system to try and do something to mitigate those um circumstances thank you I’ll come in because you’re absolutely

Right I chair the criminal justice board for for the Humber region which has um probation um courts judges um prisons um all there and we discuss these things on a regular basis unfortunately I only have the ability to convene I don’t have hold of the um of

The the levers uh although I will perhaps be getting that as far as probation’s um concerned um because that tends to be younger people and so that’s what we uh that’s that’s our that’s our bag and I to reassure you we do talk about about that and how how you uh um

You actually go about improving systems and there is good dialogue between between the police force um the crown prosecution service the court systems and of course prisons uh as well um because we do get people coming out of prisons and you have to make sure that

Uh that those people are are in good accommodation but it’s a really big frustration for me and I’m sure for Paul as well is that the police is just one leg of that criminal justice system and when you’ve got courts probation prisons you know barristers lawyers judges um uh

In there the only really forward facing public facing in individuals are the police and the police sometimes get the bag of all those shortcomings and it’s a frustration and I I don’t think there’s an answer um because they are the only public facing um uh part of that that

Criminal justice system that people would meet from day to day but it’s certainly a frustrating thing but just to reassure you we have those conversations and I convene those conversations at that criminal justice board um with with whoever needs it to be to be complain that it could be

Victim support it could be domestic abuse it could be drugs Rehabilitation and and the whole Gambit and it takes place under my uh uh umbrella um on a regular basis and we have officers dedicated within the office of the police and crime commissioner to actually service that that part of the uh the

Process thank you very much uh Council still thank you chair um hello Paul um congratulations on uh your appointment um and also on uh continuing with the um uh beat patrols I’ve seen uh um at least five in and around Beverly and I’ve stopped and had a word with the the

Two officers different offices on different occasions but nevertheless uh I am in the world that I represent um I’ve had residents come to me and say how pleasing it is to see them actually out on the beat we see plenty of cars wizzing past blue lights

Etc etc but it’s like it used to be and that’s great my point to you is um Chief is that the evening in Hull on the television there was um uh um a piece on road safety with cyclists and I was wondering if that was something that both yourself and the

Police crime commissioner and Leah uh is thinking about um um in in in the East Riding um and that was cyclists up Street having the uh lights at the front and the rear of the push bites and they were stopping them and giving them out

Um and I think that was more to do with safe roads Humber and also old city council but nevertheless um it is a problem throughout the East riding I’m sure uh and and it’s one that seems to have fallen by the wayside over the years and I just wondering what your

Views were chief on that youve got two different issues there so in relation to Hull you’re right it was in in relation to the city centry it wasn’t safeer road cber so that that was the local city beat working out of Osborne Street that kind

Of dealt with that so we had it was people on push bikes tearing through The Pedestrian ice City area the other one is it’s the growing trend of electric bikes and electric bikes just so I’m clear and then the guidance that goes out naturally they do come under and are

Defined also under the road traffic act uh so and there are very specific offenses around that uh so that was a specific problem that was reported to us and that’s how it was dealt with the reporting around that and in terms of the geography we have here uh isn’t

Similar around you know people getting injured kind of clobbered by the bikes as such so not such a great element however that then takes us to specific East riding around bikes roads are a greater issue here because you have a big network of rural roads so in terms

Of that road safety now it’s not for me to talk about about the council but I will because I would just say as I see what I do know is and I sat down last week I spent half a day with safer Road Humber and what I looked is I looked at

The investment each of the councils kind of the four different local authorities that we deal with put into in terms of road safety as an actual area you put more in in terms of road safety uh than any of the other local authorities that’s absolutely to your credit but but

If I was going to be frank again I think you should because your roads are because you got the reality you’ll have greater speed because you have the speed and albe it speed isn’t the main causation Factor when you bump sometimes it hurts a bit more at the other end if

You understand where I’m going around then so do I think you have a specific problem with bikes there are Road collisions here with bikes people have been killed here in the last year on bikes uh in terms of your town center for antisocial Behavior the reporting is

Very very different and it hasn’t been as acute as it was in Hull so to be quite honest if someone was tearing through Beverly I would expect my cop to stop them and deal with them uh and I’ll be really really clear is it looking for something I’m looking to do a specific

Operation on no because at the moment there isn’t that reporting or intelligence however if it presents of course we will thank you very much uh Council botel thank you chair um thank you both for your presentations this morning I’ve enjoyed and learned a lot this is the

First time I’ve sat on this committee so thank you I think it’s been a good good one to come in on um my I’ve got a couple of questions but the main one is quite specific around all the arrests you’re making in sheld to do with drugs

To stop the drugs getting in what collaborative work are you doing to support users that suddenly don’t have a supply if I was ever going to be slightly sarcastic uh it will be we can’t simply arrest our way out of any problem and one of the you you go back

Over years it’s what the police do we see a problem we go and arrest everyone uh which is absolutely fabulous and it stops it for a time and then kind of the water always fills the hole behind so the two areas that I suggested in terms

Of where can as an organization as a council where can you contribute to more kind of longer term work the answer to that is in youth provision and in uh and diversion away from prohibited substances certainly and also working with you know some of the more troubled

And complex families when we know there is a cycle of offending now where I talked about operation Shield uh I also touched on clear hold build uh there’s been some really really good work with the local Council there was a wonderful clear hold build uh event and the whole

Idea and the working around that was we go in we’ve taken those perpetrators off we’ve also got more intelligence collection to do there on after because then the next generation will immediately come in we need to know and we do know who they are and we are and

We will subsequently do something about it however those and identified where there is repeat offending a family or a group of people where offending appears to go through generations that’s where clear whole bill comes in those families are being identified it is being done and working with the local authorities

If they’re arrested they’re signposted into drugs treatment there has to be some form of willingness to do it however where we can influence that if they’re willing to do that it helps in terms of their sentencing if they’re not they generally spend a little longer in

Prison to be quite Frank uh because that element could be achieved there my as from a humanistic point of view uh it was where my real focus is it’s the families there and the young people but let’s stop that next load of generation let let’s take a trauma informed

Approach about it let’s look at the ace factors with them and they are the people we need to be targeting and us going and NE him and nicking him again that’s not doing anyone any good because I I’d rather not do it at all because that’s our future that’s our young

People lovely um do you mind if I ask a second question thank you for the first answer um I don’t know if Matthew wanted to come in as well but I’ll just go to my second question it comes back to technology and youth and actually because I saw on um Remembering Sunday

It was really lovely to see all the cadets for the police force as well um for me how are we kind of encouraging youth to report and is there Visions on apps and how we get them engaged with the police force and Reporting not just each other but other family members and

Almost create a generation of a community of that age group to support to support the police with information because they are on their phones they can take pictures and they they will share it digitally over making a phone call to 101 I I’ve got a really

Cheeky answer to that one if may it it was I’m I’m not it was my my cheeky answer is and I’m actually challenging myself and my own organization it’s how failing because in the past I’ve talked about what I’m my ambition is around technology and to to use as much as I

Can but is it us encouraging the kind of young people to report that way no frankly it hasn’t been the issues been we haven’t had the technology where we can take it we haven’t engaged the young people on the n Works they want to be engaged with and we didn’t have the

Ability to report it so I talked earlier on single online home it’s the use of apps it’s then with the neighborhood be teams to making sure they’ve got the training so we know where we’ve got different Community groups and key networks where we can engage and then it’s our work through the neighborhood

Teams in particular with the kind of education and looking at local education here being specific to these riding then encouraging them so they then know where to come to report more importantly for young people where confidential reporting lies be because look I know I was young it was a

Long long time ago but it it was I I know how it works and and you know I understand the stigma attached to that and that’s always been the case but the challenge around that it’s not young people’s challenge it’s us we we just haven’t stood up to the plate and we’ve

Still got a greater challenge at the moment and it’s Jo Jonathan constantly kind of pokes me just in terms terms of we’ve got to fill the social media footprint now a great thing Jonathan touched a little earlier about not in our community uh now not in our

Community it was it was something you know where humberside police we work really really hard on that it was facilitated and helped set up by the office of the police and crime commissioner but it was great because what it was about is it was about offenses primarily that happened online

It was about the pressures that young people faced and it was an educ in effect it was a you know series of videos online reporting which engaged with young people across our community to say this is a crime are you wereare of this it was offering not from the

Police because that’s sometimes an natural barrier but from a non-p police call it platform to say this is how you can report this is how you can get the help so we got the reporting it gave that young person the ability to engage with us by confidential reporting or at

The very least Le we will be made aware of it and actually then look to educate kind of the Youth of the future that’s where we need to go with stuff like that and ab to the credit of the opcc you very much uh Council Meredith thank you Mr chairman and again

Thank you both actually because the Strategic and the operational combined all at once very very helpful um quick question uncharacteristically for me um what can be done to reduce recidivism and you know reducing the overall crime stats to actually preventing reoffending because I imagine a big part of the the

Work that you undertake is actually working with people you’ve I say worked with before but unknown to you several things that could be done there and there is hell of a lot of focus that goes into there number one in terms of higher impact crimes I’ve talked about it earlier and won’t go

Over kind of those elements but such as da offenses against children children a real real heavy look at kind of we identify those and operation Shield the second phase we actually focus on people who are repeat offenders so you know would burgle your house would be perpetrators of domestic abuse multiple

Offenses against children they’re high harm individuals so if you want me to be a little the anderol we’ve G and focused on them we’ve got and got them but however the trick is if they go into the criminal justice system and ultimately go to prison they come out at the end

What could be done around that so with that then there it’ss another area which is we we term it as integrated offender management because we cannot and I keep saying it arrest our way out of a problem and that element is far more than the police now we’ve got a very

Good I setup here where we work with probation we work with local authorities we look work in particular with the third sector in terms of victim care and diversion for offenders which looks to get those individuals that support after dealing and me something an area for me

That was really pleasing but I shared our Force performance meeting it was because it’s normally my Deputy but I have a little sneak in every now and then just to uh just just to stir the pot a little bit but dealing with some of those High harm offenses but and you

Know I’m talking the offending numbers aren’t insignificant but in particular around offenses against children and rape the the element that was disturbing but also more pleasing was there weren’t too many repeat offenders sitting in that area so when someone is identified as a repeat offender is instantly

Flagged where it’s flagged they get an enhanced service they will get extra scrutiny if they will not engage with diversion they’ll get enforcement uh and that’s the absolute key if you want to be oldfashioned call it sticking count well thank you and that the key word for me there was thought I’m just

Thinking if we just sort of hypothetically someone comes out of prison they probably end up sleeping on a friend City probably somebody that actually got in trouble with in the first place and got caught and arrested and it is that support it’s somewhere to go you know um employment support and

Opportunities training that sort of thing uh and is that when you said third sector public authorities is that the sort of thing that’s being promoted um because ultimately from a taxpayer point of view you’re investing in somebody to save in the long run because having all the harm caused through crime and then

Actually incarcerating someone is incredibly expensive to the individual and to the to the tax base um so has that equation been done has that measure been taken and uh and and can it be you know Illustrated that you’re saving money you’re helping people and you’re reducing crime all under one umbrella

Yes it can and that’s one of the four key pillars of integrated Defender management it was I mean if some the key there let’s just boil this down slightly but someone coming out of prison sleeping on some someone sofa that’s not ideal so if the system was to truly work

You’ll know they’re coming out if they’re a high harm offender am I confident from a policing perspective that we’re aware our neighborhood teams are aware and our intelligence systems aware so we can monitor them yes they will come out in general some people in fact a great deal of people will be

Released early that’s not always a bad thing because it gives elements of control and recall and then working with probation it’s the probation service that have that responsibility within the criminal justice system to link in with those key elements because where I’ve got to be careful is as Chief constable

And you’d want me to be I likewise I can’t do everything for every element of the public sector because it’s quite bespoke what we do so it was we’re very good at s posting but it very very is much on incumbent for probation and that support system to actually work with the

People to get the jobs uh where we’ve got as the policing where our responsibility sits is to recognize the wider factors and the two key things for me there is number one the sign posting can it be done immediately you know can it be done immediately when they come

Into question and to going back to the previous questions that you know from from your colleague uh was to my right to your left it it was we could do immediate sign posting about kind of substance misuse there the key thing is when they’re then into the criminal

Justice system that is the real that’s the sweep spot if you like in terms of because it can be mandated at that point once someone’s been convicted uh and then that individual has a choice otherwise I just arrest and arrest and arrest again thank you very much councelor

Duke thank you chair um thanks for coming Johns and Pa um I represent kingham and our friend uh councilor hey actually touched on the very important subject which is high crime which was shot lifting uh recently I had a meeting well on Monday I had a meeting with the

Local police in Cottingham uh the subjects were we’re met in a pub and uh you used to have radios for Pub watch they now moved on to Whatsapp groups and we’ve um the councilors in cting have um visited most of the major shops in Kum and um they’ve got them all

To sign up to a a WhatsApp group uh similar to the pub watch um and we’ve having great difficulties having uh asking the police to actually help because we believe that would actually help the police so it’s a quick format isn’t it and if it can be collectively

Done and in and if you could help the police to try and Implement that I think it would be and for everybody else Beverly everywhere it’s a very important subject thank you so I got trouble on off I was never really good like that cotum is really

Close to my heart because it’s where I pick up my loaf of bread on the way to HQ every morning and believe me sabes tell me everything I I can assure you uh and then popping over to to the market in fact when I became Chief I went and

Did a patch walk there uh I’m pleased cuz I asked for it so the first thing where at least I smiled inside was knowing they did that patch walk with you uh just touching on WhatsApp uh I I I don’t want to go into it in any great

Detail uh there is an issue with WhatsApp and please use some AF Freight uh and I I’ll quite happily talk to you about that offline uh but in terms of use of encrypted sites uh I was going to use of encryption on what platforms we

Do and don’t use there is some form of national regulation around that so so we have to be a little Fleet of foot uh I quite happily explain out with i’ would rather not do it now because it would it would take us off on a tangent the

Bottom line is in terms of pup watch shopwatch any watch that you like in an area that’s absolutely key and I wholeheartly support what you do because it’s me it’s kick the cam for you on that one uh because and don’t worry I’m getting it every day from sains

Bris thank you very much and the final question from councelor Smith um just before I start I’d like to give you something back cuz I was told when I first signed up to this process we were your biggest critics and friends um in my short time as a world counselor

I’ve had the privilege of spending some time with a guy called Ben seed who showed me some speed traps and he was a real charismatic guy very passionate about his job and a pleasure to spend the morning with and also a guy called Matty Wright at Melton who was truly

Inspirational and these care towards your colleagues and and what they’ve set up there is a credit to everybody and and it’s something that really impressed me um my question really is not around your presentation but as we move into the festive period it’s kind of interl

I’d just like to know more about the campaigns that you’re possibly going to launch are we going to see more dogs on our streets for the nighttime economy sniffing out the users of Narcotics and what kind of measures are we going to put in place to tackle drink and Drug

Driving I answer that quite simply yes yes and yes to expand a little bit so what’ll happen is as I come to the end of this month and going to a week my three months which has been more than three months of operation Shield collapses down uh I will give everyone they can

Have seven days off at that point just to go back to operations as normal surprise surprise operation U tide kind of then kicks into place operation U tide is our response to crowded places shopping zones uh everything you would expect uh kind of community events around Christmas and New Year sorry for

The crass name but at least we know what it is we we know it’s linked to Christmas where the change is is directed towards open space violence your city centers your town centers it is directed towards your communities with your neighbor your neighborhood offices because actually good people in

Your communities just to make sure there is a visible presence there is something about reassurance there to me that’s just I know it’s old fashion but it’s just very very important yes there is a response also in terms of Narcotics and drug dogs um we use them anyway in relation to our

Operations with the nighttime economy now we’re trying to be a little bit more sophisticated around that as well so going back and earlier talking about violence against women and girls but kind of working with the local authorities once again very good very active in this area but kind of we push

Our gandula in terms of the work that we do uh with the licens premises we work with the license premises uh should they not comply there are other avenues we don’t have to in this area they’re very very engaged but also we have an element

That I I don’t talk too openly in terms of our operation y tide approach where we deploy officers and trained officers into the economy into the nighttime economy to we look at very much those that could be Predators so you know potential kind of spiking offenses offenses against women offenses against

The vulnerable we we try to look at the full range of potential offenses connected with the time connected with the area and connected with kind of what vulnerability sits there but in general terms you’re talking domestic violence close space violence open space violence people getting drunk and fighting we

Touched on shoplifting but more people there of course your industry of course your Commerce worry about that so that’s engagement with your local neighborhood team and then the elements that affect that which are alcohol and narcotics so yes in in particular license premises around clubs and then working with those I mean

The local Authority again and the licensed premises to let them know what is and what isn’t acceptable uh but you’ll get you’ll get a real big visible response as well so less clandestine more what you see is what you get and then come the New Year I’m going to repeat it all again

Thank you very much um okay well thank you very much Paul for uh Paul and Jonathan for for coming and U speaking to us today it’s been absolutely fascinating to know what you’re doing in the area and how much you’re doing and how much there is still to do you know

It never never stops does it um it’s it’s been it’s been brilliant I’d like to recommend that we thank thank you both for for coming and I think another recommendation that seems to come out of this morning is that we we should maybe this committee should work with children

And young people in terms of Youth provision and that’s maybe something that Leo could could take away and uh see what we can be done about that and beyond that I think that’s our recommendations unless anybody’s got anything else they would like to bring up yeah I just wonder whether we could

Um uh has have as a recommendation that as soon as the it’s available that we hear about the Humber eser and the progress that you make um at our next meeting with the police crime commissioner and chief yeah insector thank you I Look to achieve that at the

Point that I can operationally so it could I mean scrutiny is quarterly isn’t it yes yeah a bit more twice a year that may fit quite well uh just and the reason I say that is there’s a lot going going on and there’ll be there’s a

Natural time when I can tell you without affecting operational business uh so because believe me I’m bursting at the SCS to tell you okay well coun Smith yeah sorry about this I would I would be really interested to hear after operation your tithe if we were able to

Just get a report on what was achieved over that period because obviously there was going to be so many people going into our towns and cities and to hear the work they’re doing to see if it’s preventing stuff is that something you be able to do all maybe when either you

Or someone else comes from just or a briefing note yeah a briefing note would be good it’s actually something I think we like I mean the great thing about you ladies and gents is it’s very interactive so because a conversation is better informed maybe when we come for the next

One CU I want to tell you about operation shield in full I want to talk to you about kind of the elements that that we’ve touched on in terms of serious and organized crime I want to tell you about your tide and I’ve got a funny feeling operation Shield is going

To repeat I would like to give you literally the full cabang about what we’ve done uh so in terms of what you request from us if if it was you focused it down to those elements of operational outputs I that will really focus it and we’ll give you a specific coners kind of

Conversation on that that would be great yeah thank you very much that’ be good yeah if you could do that so it just um leaves it to me to thank you both for coming um you very welcome to stay for an update on first homes but I would

Quite understand if you don’t have time for that but no thank you very much for your time thank you right everybody uh I’m going to start without some people coming back um I don’t know where everybody’s gone right Nicolo um sorry so we’re going to talk about first homes now and Leo is

Going to give us a a quick update and then introduce Nicola who’s going to talk on yeah thank you chair I think the report’s quite self-explanatory really so I’ll just highlight a few key points in there first homes were introduced by the government as a type of affordable

Housing in 2021 these are homes which just sold at a minimum of 30% discount and there’s a £250,000 cap on the discounted total price of the home to those who qualify these homes have to be the exact same quality as free market homes built on the same sites as as them

So far we’ve had 49 of them produced in the East riding and going forward they will form 25% of affordable housing provision on all new developments which will be secured through the planning process the homes are sold directly by the developers to those who qualify and the council checks the eligibility of

Those seeking to purchase a first home in these riding those who qualify to buy a first home are those who are firsttime buyers with a household income of less than £70,000 and crucially a local connection we’re asking the committee today to to endorse the continuation of

This local criteria as we feel it’s the fair way of managing this and East riding and right that we prioritize these properties for local people so I’ll hand over to Nicol and now our forward planning and housing strategy manager who may wish to add a bit more thank you councelor Hammond um as

It’s quite a short report I don’t really have much more to to add to that um maybe if I just start very briefly with a reminder for the committee just about affordable housing so as has been stated first home is is considered as an affordable housing unit um and that has

A different set of tenure and I I always come but I know it always gets confusing in terms of uh what actually is affordable housing because we talk about many different things um so affordable housing is properties that are for rent so either a social rent or an affordable

Rent uh at intermediate properties which generally is a shared ownership so part rented part owned um or a discounted market so the first homes which is what today’s report is about or a discounted market sales so it has that variety um of tenur so effectively an affordable

House is is more affordable than private rented sector or clearly purchasing 100% of of a house so that’s the idea that it gives people and ability but clearly within those 10 years some people will be able to afford more than others so a 30% discount on a first home is not for

Everybody you know that is for some people whereas for some people they will need to have the social rent so it it picks up on that wide area um and then just in terms so more specifically on uh first homes it’s already been picked up about the 30% discount um what we have

Seen from the 49 completions um is an average of the um the household income of being 46,9 so for those 49 people 70% of those have been joint purchases their household income has just been just over £46,000 um and the average age of a firsttime home buyer has been

27 which I think is slightly younger than where we would have anticipated clearly when first homes came about we really didn’t know where would go that was the discussion just over 12 months ago where should we set household incomes to um but clearly with 12 months

Of of those sales we have a much better idea now so it’s the income is probably slightly lower than where we would have have expected um and the age certainly at 27 is is younger um just to say bringing it up to date since the beginning of April 23

There have only been three applications processed so there was a huge amount last year 4 9 completions was way above where we thought it would be with first homes but it definitely has slowed so in terms of first home completions in the current year that we’re in we’re not

Anticipating it to be anywhere near 49 um unless unless things change and pick up but um like say only three applications the last one I signed was at least six weeks ago so whether that is just a sign of Market slowing mortgage rates uh people just making you

Know fewer decisions on those uh kind of big purchases um them to be seen kind of going forward so I think that’s it chair because between us we’ve covered practically everything in the report now yeah thank you Nicolai I just wonder whether whe whether the fact that the the number of of of

Uh settlements if you like reducing as it has does that mean we’ve soaked up demand or um have we soaked up Supply you know which way do you think it is yes no it’s a good question it could be that we’ve simply there was 49 people that wanted you know that considered

Themselves suitable as first home buyers um and maybe there’s not many more people out there equally the reason that we know the 49 was completed was a first um um an early delivery program which basically the 30% discount was paid by homes England so as a house Builder you

Know it was very easy to bring that forward because you really weren’t losing anything because the the 30% discount was being paid for you so we saw lots and lots of applications coming forward so that’s why we would never have anticipated this year to be as many because there’s not that early delivery

Program stopped but like you say it may be fewer applications planning applications which therefore obviously means fewer first homes but it may be simply that there’s fewer people out there because we we have soak that up it’s difficult to say uh Dennis thanks thanks Nicola um you you went

Through the affordable housing criteria there and explained the different um sort of categories of rent part rented and discounted Market um I’m assuming that the vast majority of these are are for rental in in afforded in affordable housing I just wanted you could clarify that and also

Um is there a is this potentially going to stop people from renting I mean it seems that the takeouts quite small but if it was if it was big was it going to potentially impact upon the supply of rented accommodation if this was you know very very successful in terms of roll

Out thank you there’s a limit to the number of First homes that can come forward so the first 25% so at least 25% um of the first um part of your affordable housing has to be first homes so you have a uh if we had 100 dwellings it was 20%

Affordable uh that was the proportion that we should be applying then you would have a total of 20 affordable homes the first 25% of that 20 homes are first homes so that would be five first homes going forward and then you would apply the percentage for rented and then

You would apply the percentage for a intermediate so the way that it works is that you you absolutely get your 25% that’s set out that’s government uh legislation that you have to provide at least 25% then you apply the percentage that you want for your rental to ensure that

You aren’t losing on your rental and actually what what generally falls out of it is your shared ownership properties are going to be fewer so we’re not delivering particularly fewer rented um but clearly we are in the sense of we’re delivering first homes because if you were delivering an

Overall percentage you would be delivering a greater number of rented properties but we’re delivering first homes we try and apply uh the cor the percentage to ensure that we don’t lose on rented and then effectively what is left becomes intermediate properties so in terms of your question of will people

Rent less well no I we’re looking at different people within that market so when I described affordable housing that’s why I talked about it being appropriate for different groups of people as well affordable housing isn’t necessarily appropriate for absolutely everyone you know somebody that can afford a 30% discounted property won’t

Be somebody that needs to have a a social rent applied because they’ve clearly got a larger household income and have an ability to apply for a mortgage you have to have a 50% mortgage on a first home so we are talking we’re talking affordable housing as a wide

Umbrella and then we’re talking about different groups within that umbrella that can afford those different tenures I I can you just explain who will they be renting from then so if as a developer builds in a home housing estate clearly 25% affordable homes is rule is applied and then there’s the the

Rental who’s who who’s the landlord in this in these circumstances where there’s a new development for example sorry I I don’t I’m not sure if I’ve been clearing a first homes are purchased by by somebody and as we’ve found out 70% of them are generally joint purchases and so that’s a direct

Sale from the house Builder to the individual or or the couple that are buying that property so there is no rental involved in that that’s just a direct purchase that 30% discount sits on the land registry so the next time it’s sold it’s sold again at a 30% discount that’s why it’s affordable

Housing because it’s kept in in perpetuity so there is no rental element of it the rental element comes in where we talk about obviously rented Properties or shared ownership properties where it’s a part rent uh part purchase but first homes uh don’t the council are only involved through checking uh someone’s eligibility it’s

The decision or the the sale is directly between the house Builder and the P person purchasing if I could just come in and add I think I think crucially the parts of the East Riding where first homes will make a real positive impact for local people will be areas like the

Western worlds where I represent where we’re seeing because there’s such a high demand from people out of County to live there as well as people within we’re seeing the house price is absolutely rocket which is to an extent driving local people out the market so I think

First homes are a really good step to try and ensure local people can stay in their local communities particularly in the parts of the East Riding where we’re seeing that becoming more and more difficult okay Council M Master thank you chair um with regard to smaller developers um could they use first homes

As a as a loophole to bypass the local plan in order to build on land that isn’t allocated so first homes you can have exception sites so we already have rural exception sites for affordable homes you can do that for first homes too so if it is viewed as a planning application as

Being acceptable you can build first homes on non-allocated sites ccor Jeff thank you chair one very quick qu question Nicola the 49 homes that have already been completed were they in one area or spread over areas please uh they they were spread in in different areas so that’s just dependent

On where the planning applications came forward um I know there were higher numbers in lenfield and Bridlington but they were generally spread across the usth riding the 14 that you’ve got way in are they also spread over East Riding yes I mean they will be what you

Tend to find is that when a developer gets permission starts building on site you tend to see two or three applications for first homes come forward because they they’ve built those homes so we tend to get them in you know like I say those sort of numbers but yes

It can come across the entirety of the use riding oops sorry I didn’t turn it off uh counil Smith thank you um I’m not sure if you can answer this and and how it is related to this particular topic but if I give you a scenario if a developer builds a

Number of dwellings and then those dwellings are transferred to a Housing Association for like a part ownership do they still pay commuted sums and do they become part of the this scheme as well um so in um if i’ had used a different example of a 100 dwellings um

And say we got down to um a requirement of of 10 and a half affordable units what would happen is that the 10 units we would expect to be provided on site as affordable units where the commuted sums part comes in is we would take the

The half so the 10 and the half the half of that would become commuted sums so that would be become a value of money which is paid to the council we we very rarely would accept affordable housing to be provided offsite so we wouldn’t in that example we wouldn’t accept the 10

To be provided somewhere else so that 10 would be provided on site some of them uh will go to a registered provider which can be us as a council we’re a registered provider even if it goes to another registered provider that’s not ourselves um then no they’re not

Providing a commuted some because that affordable house is still in existence um and generally not quite 100% but generally we have the nomination rights as well so if a property comes forward as a social rented property it’s handed over to a registered provider the nomination so they would still have to

Come to us as the council to ask for somebody from our waiting list to go into that property um so we generally have 100% nominations on first let and then 50% on subsequent lets so it’s helping our waiting list but in terms of going back to your your question about

Commuted sums no the commut sums is paid by the developer the house Builder and it’s just dependent on where that percentage sits uh like I say 10 and a half 10.75 whatever it is that bit over where you can’t provide a whole unit on the site okay thank you councelor

Estelle yeah thanks Nicola um and I’ve read the report and it’s really interesting and I do support it but the question I’d like to um ask you is um what land does the Council actually own within the urban areas um that we could release for a followable housing um over

And above amenity land um and I think I’ve spoken to you about this in the past um I’m against imunity land being built on whever possible but obviously amenity land has to be built on to provide and to meet the government’s targets for affordable housing I’m just wondering um

Nicola um what areas of pockets of land there is where the council could say right we’re going to build 20 houses there and 10 hours is there Etc um I think I think that’s slightly beyond the remit of this this paper but I don’t whe whe whether you want to come

Back to Peter on that one do you Nichola I can give a a general answer I mean the council um I’m sure all members have heard about the council’s 1,000 housing Target for affordable homes and so that is very much what that that group and those officers are doing is looking at

Counter loone land initially to see what what can be developed in terms of immunity land I mean it depends exactly what it is but if it’s protected through the local plan as um open space then that is something that would be difficult to to build on um it’s only

Really possible where um you were going to provide something somewhere else so I don’t know for the sake of if it was our lots for argument sake um if you were then going to build something better more allotment space somewhere else then that might be appropriate for that loss

Of open space but in general that is something that would be protected so it’s not something that officers are looking at but clearly um as the council we do own quite a bit of of land so we’re trying to maximize that out where possible some of it may be garage courts

And I know that there’s been a couple of planning applications for for for garage courts obviously it’s lower numbers because of the sheer size of garage courts but it’s all adding to that total of going towards a thousand homes and equally the Thousand homes goes towards the general Target that we have for

Affordable housing it all just feeds into that c botel oh got microphone on I’ll jump to that um do we have an understanding of any data on how many first terms we’re expecting to come to Market in the coming years um so like in the next year in the next 510 and also

Do we have any data or actual figures on where the people are who need these because I know families in flamber who have had to move into brington where it’s cheaper to buy a first term because the amount of people moving in from from other areas has driven the prices up in

Flamber for just an example so just do we have the data really on those um I don’t have the data to hand um but what you what we could look to do um and this wouldn’t be an exact science but uh through the through the local plan work we we have a housing

Trajectory so we know more specifically what can come forward in the next five years then particularly beyond that but certainly within that we could look at anything would provide an affordable um supply of units therefore 10 or 10 units or above applying the 25% to that and

Then we could make um you know an estimation of what could potentially come forward because we know that subject to First homes um being around in that with you know still within that five years then we could provide that in terms of where they come forward well first homes come forward where the

Planning application comes forward so in part that also links back to the local plan it depends where we’re making the allocations within the local plan or bit windfall sites would also have to provide you know 25% affordable homes as well so yeah it does link into where we’re looking to develop and clearly

We’re looking to develop more in places like Bridlington than we are in flambro but anything coming forward in flamber should provide that um where it doesn’t is if it’s 100% affordable scheme so if a registered provider or the council wanted to bring forward a scheme that was % affordable homes and that wouldn’t

Bring forward first homes because as I said before first homes are dealt with directly between developer and purchaser um and there’s no registered provider involvement so register provider can’t can’t sell a first home effectively so that’s why we’d have to work that through in terms of the fiveyear of

Supply where we think everything’s going to come forward but it can we can do that I can provide that note oh sorry I left it on um just to followup then if we have have that information are we as a council helping connect the dots between the people that

Need like do we help Market these properties or do we leave it down to the developer to to Market them um it’s it’s down to the developer the developer has to Market it for six months so the local connection criteria which this report is about applies for the first three months

And then if it’s not sold within that National criteria uh applies so the only change really is the local connection and the household income so you are suddenly within that final three months opening it up to a lot more people because they don’t have to have that

Local connection to the East Riding what we’ve experienced over the last 12 months is that there has been no issue in in these first homes being sold um nobody has got to the end of six months and said that they weren’t able to sell them I’m not sure that anybody

Particularly got to the end of three months to be honest but I’d have to check that um so people are out there developers want to Market it developers want to sell I mean this is what you have to remember developers are Keen to sell so it’s in within their interest to

To market the property as well okay thank you very much um Richard Meredith thank you chair um actually Council of hotels pretty much asked most not all of my question and more eloquently um so just just just to boil it down simply can I just ask what’s

Being done to increase the delivery of first homes and the applications for purchase as was just highlighted um and how in general can the council assist people in getting on the property ladder and work with developers to do so on a larger scale well yeah yeah Nicha can you just

Stick to the first homes but because this is what we’ve got I mean it’s a good question and it’s maybe one we want to bring up at another the second part of your question the first bit about the first homes is uh it was more if I may chair about

Specifically using the first homes more broadly more widely and more accessibly okay um we as the council aren’t encouraging the development of first homes but what we are doing is applying the government legislation that a minimum 25% of first homes on every application that comes forward that should be providing affordable is

Providing affordable clearly what we need to be careful of as as the council is looking and ensuring that we are providing rented accommodation and the shared ownership that I’ve talked about as well you know not to repeat it but I’ve talked about those different groups of people so first homes isn’t for

Everybody yes it falls within the umbrella of affordable but it isn’t for everybody so we’re doing what we have to do and then applying the rental and then the intermediate so we wouldn’t look to apply more than 25% okay I suppose then chairman uh what magic Wizardry do you use to find the

Balance between everything that does come under that umbrella and how is it assessed to make sure that that balance is appropriate it’s um it’s a bit of everything really um so when a planning application is made by a house Builder housing strategy the housing strategy

Team or a consulty to that so they will consider um firstly the local plan and the percentage affordable that should be applied to that secondly the evidence base that sits behind that which is the local housing needs assessment so what percentages of the different types of tenur that I’m talking about should

Should be applied because it’s different by different areas thirdly we then have the housing waiting uh data so we know who is sat on our own waiting list um and we know where their preferences are where they want to live the type of properties that they want so we will

Also look at that and then we’ll also look at what’s been built in that area so if we’d had um an absolute abundance of I don’t know shared ownership for example um in in a location we may look to slightly reduce the percentage down of shared ownership because we would

Expect that need to already have have been met so it’s not a straightforward um formula that is applied um every case is different as you know through plan planning committees as well every case is on its own Merit so that’s why you have the hairs and strategy team who make

Comments which obviously goes back to the planning officer um the other part to bring into that is then the viability assessment as well so whil we may say it’s 10% it’s 15 it’s 20% through the local plan clearly if a developer is challenging that and saying that they’re

Not able to afford that that’s where our valuation and Estates team come in assess their viability and what can be uh produced so that’s the start we need to know that then work down from the the housing mix and sometimes you know the argument will be that it should be

Policy compliant sometimes it might be two three percentage points less and then we have to work accordingly to that okay thank you and finally been answered okay sure okay Nic well thank thank you very much for that and we’ve got some recommendations that come out of this um and they are as

Follows if I can find it well firstly to thank you for coming and secondly um the first home’s policy be reviewed by safe and stronger in its 2425 work program is everybody happy with that so if you can bring it back just next year um and then the third one is that

The subcommittee approves the report and criteria as laid out in this paper for consideration at the cabinet on the 16th of January 2024 okay so we don’t want to change anything really as recommended okay thank you very much and thank you for your time you’re staying on a bit longer just

To look at the work program a right oh microphone yes Liz I’ll be quick um I’m going to take um item six and seven together if that’s okay we’ve had a request for um a change to the work program of the 18th of January the the allocations policy

Request to move to the 7th of March and because four items have been added to cabinet’s F plan of key decisions which if you want Nicola to explain um anything about those four items private sector housing assistance policy housing assistant policy for Council tenants tency policy and tency

Strategy with um a suggestion that you may want to see those before they go to cabinet and in that case it would have to go to the 18th of January meeting therefore moving fuel poverty a suggestion to the 7th of March as well is everybody okay with that yeah

Yeah we just have some moves and additions so technically you’ve got six items on the 18th of January and four items on the 7th of March there’s also the surveillance camera policy update being added to cabinet’s for plan of key decisions however the officer has said

That is happy for um it to be postponed to go to Cabinet um in J in January I think it was due to go to we have had a few suggestions from town and Parish councils to look at CCTV um in your next year’s work program

So if we could possibly suggest that the surveillance camera policy update be at your very first meeting in 2425 on the 6th of June and then we’ll try and get the CCTV items if you decide to go down that route at your work program setting meetings in January if

You’re happy with that yeah thank you that yeah so that that means uh piece of the the January one’s going to go on till 3:30 in the afternoon is that all right with You he’s very obsessed with I know this fishing chips thing good for the fish trade and good for the Farmers on that on that bombshell from that bombshell