After eight years in America hosting The Late Late Show, James Corden is back in the UK. In his first industry interview since his return, Heat Entertainment Director Boyd Hilton examines his illustrious BAFTA, Tony and Emmy winning career and asks what’s next? As a Writer/Producer/Performer on both sides of the Atlantic, James will give his unique perspective on our industry and discuss its future.
Chair
Boyd Hilton, Entertainment Director, Heat
Speaker
James Corden OBE, Writer, Host, Actor and Producer
The session was part of the RTS Cambridge Convention 2023, with Principal Sponsor Channel 4. The convention took place on 20th – 21st September at King’s College, Cambridge.
[Applause] so without further Ado let’s meet the man himself James [Applause] Cordon hello welcome home thanks so how does it feel you were doing a unique job hosting 1197 I think episodes just just under yeah just under 1100 yeah that’s right yeah um four nights a week yes an
Incredibly intensive intense job to have and then you gave it up and now you’re back how do you feel any regrets you miss it I well I I think I it would be it would be odd not to miss such a thing but I think because we
Knew like my wife and I knew for quite a few years that that we were that we were going to stop when we did like we always knew that when my son finished sixth grade was sort of like Middle School really that that that was the
That was the cut off for us that it would be unfair to we always knew it would be unfair to be moving around sort of 13 14 15 year olds you know and so I said we were we were the other day we were sort of back at the very place
That we sort of left when we went to America and and my and Joel said it’s so weird that we’re back and I said I don’t know that it’s weird that we’re back it feels weird that we ever went it feels such a strange thing to have done for 8
Years it just feels like you were just picked up like in a play and picked up and then just dropped in this you know you know I’d never really stood on a a monologue Mark and told a joke before I’d never really interviewed anybody before and and so it just felt
So strange and I I we got all our stuff back that we put into storage that we that we put into storage before we went and going through all these boxes it was so clear it was so clear in all the stuff that we kept that our entire mindset was we’re
Only we’ll be back in 6 months like there’s no way there’s no way this show doesn’t get pulled off the air it’s not going to work so we should probably keep these tissues you know honestly like three boxes of half opened Kleenex tissues and you’re like at what point
Did we think yeah we’ll need those in 8 years you know uh yeah it’s been an extraordinary thing like even watching that clip then you’re like oh wow yeah no yeah what I I don’t know I’d always be immensely proud of it I guess yeah when when it first start remember Ben
Winston your your best friend and exact producer said that you basically had you had to fill an hour of a blank piece of paper you had a blank slate every night and you had to fill it up with stuff was that a terrifying thought or did you think was that an amazingly
Inspirational thought it was all pretty terrifying crying certainly at the start if I’m honest it was all you know our daughter my second child car was was 12 weeks old so I went about 4 weeks before my wife and the kids could come because we had to get
Carri a passport so it was all just very very overwhelming and then we couldn’t really book any guests on the show publicists and people were just sort of saying well yeah we no we’re wa and see what it’s like we’ll see what the show’s like and then we might bring
Our guests on and we were like we don’t have this we don’t have the luxury of time you know I think most people that that do these jobs at 12:30 have maybe been on a sitcom or Saturday Night Live or The Daily Show or things like that
And so you can spend a long time sitting thinking no one knows us here no one knows what we can do and then you have then you at one moment then a kind of flick a switch flicks and you go oh hang on no one knows us here no one knows
What we can do and suddenly it was a feeling of like oh I think I’ve I think I’ve learned enough from either being in plays or writing Gavin and Stacy or the 30 or so episodes of Lega the own that I’d hosted we thought oh okay hang on we can
Really build something interesting here and the whole way I got the job really was just trying to make a show that would embrace the internet that’s that’s that was the entire sort of mission objective of the show was yes the show’s on at 12:30 at night but there is an
Audience here that are still watching content they’re just not consuming it in a linear broadcast fashion and maybe we make a show that launches at 12:37 on CBS but actually is is available to watch all day and all night wherever you are your commuting to work your lunch
Break whenever and maybe if we do that if we if we only focus on this audience it’s never going to get bigger than well arguably it’s going to deteriorate so actually if we could just focus on this and put our Focus there and build a digital team and how can we put those
Things out there you know I I don’t really know how we were going to do that but I knew that’s what we had to do so it was about creating gold moments wasn’t it really that that would kind of play on yeah it’s about creating your
Hour so you’ve got your hour of show which after ad breaks comes down to about sort of 42 43 minutes I think and then it’s about going okay how do we slice this up to be consumed in the day so we realize very quickly that like if you call a segment
Something it will travel much quicker so carp karaoke or drop the mic or um take a break you know things that we did it’s like you you you know which is there’s no great Secret in that that’s almost that’s the entire world has has done that but but but that we were like
Okay well if we break it up into those things and then we would think okay well and then we would start we would we would be aware of okay well most Clips a lot of Clips don’t get watched on a Friday because lots of people take Friday off or they’re traveling or they
Go so okay so our best time to put things out is on a is on a Wednesday show because Thursday is a great so if even Tuesday or Wednesday and we’ve just started to think about the show like that really and then and then thinking of the audience watching it as
A total hour and then going okay now how do we Market this in the best way I guess and I and I guess having getting kind of Superstar Talent involved was a key and you know you have people like Tom Hanks right from the start um and you Tom Cruz incredible scenes jumping
Out of a plane with Tom Cruz and he was in the final it was an amazing VT with him in your last episode where you got him somehow to sing from musical whilst walking along at a top of a bar somewhere I mean the whole thing was extraordinary is the way you interact
With those huge talents is that a key part of the key to the success of the show I certainly yeah I mean the the show is very much built on on those those guests and appearances as as all talk shows are really but but our thing was about creating a safe environment that
Was only that was celebratory if we could create somewhere that would that would celebrate people that they felt comfortable in that they felt this is fun that’s the biggest thing what you realize is what people really want to do is have a really great time and that’s
Not to say that everybody has to jump out of an airplane or you know it’s just about creating an environment where people go oh no I like being here so that’s from the largest thing of the time you spend with a guest right down to you know redoing all of our dressing
Rooms to to make it a place where publicists or makeup artists or assistants or all of these you know these huge entourages that some people travel with that this is a comfortable place that they would want to relax and hang out those things make a huge difference if you’re asking guests for
More time which inevitably we always were we were always saying like is there any way you can get here at 3: before we tape at 5 because we’d love to shoot this thing on a green screen and drop you into it for next week’s show and then publicists and people like that if
They if they feel they’re in a an environment that’s appreciative that they’re there those things go a really long way I think yeah just on the Tom Cruz jumping out of the plane thing yes you did look gen I know you’re like obviously expect you to
Play up to the to the camera that you’re scared but you did look genuinely terrified were you genuinely terrified I was less scared then than when we flew in the fighter jets oh yeah yeah yeah because when you’re jumping out of a plane like I was strapped to a guy who’s
Done 7,000 jumps and in the paramilitary so you just think well okay he doesn’t want anything to happen today so all I’ve really got to do is lie here he’s really taking care care of everything when me and Tom were going in the fighter jets that was like a few days
Before I had a genuine sort of like a real worry like a bit of a sort of I just ended up going like look he’s an actor he’s not a pilot like respectfully it’s just the two of us in an airplane if something happens like then we then we die and
Worse than that worse than my own death is my children growing up in places and people going you know who they are their dad killed Tom Cruz you know what I mean that that would be the thing so you’re like so then I made this I said to our
Look I’m really having a bit of cold feet about this like we’re going up in a very very very old plane and then we’re going up in this fighter jet and all the stuff and then and then Tom calls and goes you know James i i i i your life is more valuable
Than mine I promise you and he just does this whole you are never in danger you know and he and he actually did make some very Salient points where he said to me the reason we’re shooting this cuz they stopped production of Top Gun for two days so we could shoot that yeah
Which then was going to be a year before the movie came out because of coid ended up being I think two and a half or three years before it came out but his point and that what he said to me was I would never do this if I wasn’t flying every
Day I am flying every single day I am completely matchfit you don’t have to worry you have to just trust me I’m so ready and I wouldn’t do this going in cold and then you’re like all right I guess we’re going to do it you know and
Then my wife sort of saying can someone just call me when they’re on the ground and done and it’s all those sort of stuff but I mean my God what a thing to have done like if I look back on the show which I don’t even know if I can even
Now because it was only in at the end of April but it is a sorts of overwhelming feeling of just thinking I I you just think I I genuinely don’t know what what I’ve done to deserve such memories to deserve such things and it was really hard to to walk away from
It’s a very difficult thing to leave but I felt compelled to come home like I I just being back just this time now it’s quite interesting actually while it’s been raining these past couple of days I’ve been at like School Gates and stuff and people have said
Like oh sure you’re glad you came back sort of thing and I you sometimes you want to like Shake people and go I wish you could I wish you could see it from a distance I wish you could see this island from a distance it’s unbelievable it’s amazing the architecture and the
People and the creativity and the things that we make the size of the country versus its output is extraordinary um and I just felt compelled to come home and compelled to just try and see if there might be one more thing that I could do safe in the knowledge that
There might not be you know interesting so do you think because like CBS giving you that job was a massive risk really it was an incredible step as you say feels unreal foolish right do you think like British TV people channels would have taken such a risk do you think and
Do you think they should be taking similar risks I think look I think everything’s a risk really whenever you whenever you do anything it’s like it’s hard it’s why there’s not volumes of very very creative people who are incredibly critical of other people’s work because
They know how hard it is to make it just to get something made is a genuine success and it’s you know uh it’s so easy to cast things aside it’s with it’s it’s so easy to be critical I guess I guess the yes I think there
There is an element where I do think probably in this moment that we’re in in in television say in in Britain that that that that there could be there is room for more risk there is room to be open to failure I think failure is a brilliant thing I think it’s completely
Uh underestimated how valuable it is and I think it’s not something to be afraid of I think the stuff that you you learn almost nothing in success and you learn everything in your failures and when someone has something that doesn’t work the response from a creative Community
Should be great how wonderful you’re now completely free to open with a new blank page sometimes when you sort of surf a line of just pure success you start to feel like you’re really just playing Jenga with your own career and you’re like oh God I wonder if we can take
Another oh we’ve done another block this is amazing oh my God I wonder if we can do another oh my God this has worked as well and what you realize is and then you’re so scared of it falling and what you realize is when when it all falls
Like that’s the best part of the game that’s the bit where everyone goes yay we can play again now you know so if I was running a network or a channel I guess I would say I would I would I would just bet on youth every day of the
Week I would just bet on young people cuz if you bet on Youth and it doesn’t work you gave someone a shot and there’s honoring that and if you bet on Youth and it works you look like a genius and deep down we all know no one
Is you know but like you know like seeing Ash and now you think about like like Ricky and Stephen writing directing and producing the office is an extraordinary thing to to give to two guys who did a radio show on X on Xfm Ruth and I writing Gavin and Stacy the
BBC’s absolute weight of support behind us to just go no no I remember like we didn’t really get notes like the BBC just used to go it’s your show you know it better than we do these are some suggestions and then you take those suggestions in the manner that they’re
Given and sometimes it reaffirms what you already thought CU you go oh no they thought this but actually I think we think that and then sometimes they’ll come along with something and you go that’s a really good idea we should do that and and we’re in this period now of
Like notes start to become almost like instructions and I think that’s really dangerous for Creative people I think if you back someone creative to make a show you should back them unequivocally and absolutely safe in the knowledge that it might not work and you might lose your
Job but it’s that’s why we got into it you know yeah so if you’re in you saying if you’re in charge of of of a network or a streamer or something as well that the Temptation is always to go with existing IP as then to kind of do
Sequels and prequels and all of that which can be great but would you try and resist that would you try and emphasize it has new stuff and new talent I think it’s I understand why because it feels today like the stakes are so high and I think sometimes we all just have to
Google Earth ourselves and go look we’re just making TV it’s not like you know we’re not you know it’s all it’s it’s it’s okay like there’s a i about six years ago I joined this thing and I subscribed to um to to Walt Disney’s um they there’s a
There’s a place online I forget what it’s called but you can let me see if I can find this you can subscribe to his um H where is it hang on you can subscribe to his uh his notes you know his share yeah his shareholders here it is his shareholders
Reports and the I I used to read this a lot when I was thinking about leaving the show um I won’t read it all it’s very long there’s a um this was I think this was in 1966 and I think he knew that he was
Going to pass away at this point and uh he writes in his annual report he he puts um let me find the he says uh today I propose we look to the Future and I’ll tell you about some of the plans and philosophy that make us tick here at the Disney organization
Many people have asked why don’t you make another Marry Poppins well by Nature I’m a born experimentor and to this day I do not believe in sequels I cannot follow popular Cycles I have to move on to new things there are many new worlds to conquer as a matter of fact
People have been asking us to make sequels ever since Mickey Mouse first became a star we have bowed only once to the cry to repeat ourselves which was back in the 30s when The Three Little Pigs was an enormous hit and up went the cry give us more pigs I could not see
How we could possibly top pigs with more pigs but we tried and I doubt whether anybody reading this can name the other cartoons in which the pigs appeared we did not make the same mistake with Snow White when it was a huge hit the shout went up for more dwarfs top dwarves with
Dwarfs why right now we’re not thinking about making another merry Poppins we never will perhaps there will be other Ventures with equal critical and financial success and this is the really good liis but we know we cannot hit a home run if the bases are loaded every
Time we go to the plate we also know that the only way we can get to first base is by constantly going to bat and continuing to swing we will always look for new ideas and new stories hoping that somehow we come up with a different
Kind of Merry Poppins or perhaps even a different kind of Disneyland and I feel like that was in 1966 how did you stumble upon that well I I’m going to pretend that applause was for me it wasn’t uh I but I find I think almost
Always if you look back it will tell you what’s coming forward almost always not you know it’s funny like I was listening to this like briefly to the talk about Ai and you know I I understand that the fear and the skepticism of it but then you have to remember like when
Calculators came out people were freaking out people were like people like oh my God no one’s going to learn how to add up this is awful we’re going to a nation of idiots this is terrible oh this is the worst thing that could ever happen like and I feel for this
Generation now this generation I feel like there must have been a period I don’t know how many years ago decades and decades and decades ago where there was like you it was absolutely necessary that you knew how to churn butter if you couldn’t churn butter you couldn’t
Survive and there must have been about 20 years where children were being taught to churn butter while butter was readily available in a shop and uh and I actually think if that almost always if you’re looking for for for the next thing you you you’ll
See it on some level behind you it you know if and that’s definitely true in television you know I I think a lot about I’m a lot of the minute about half hour half hour narrative comedies and uh I’ve come to the conclusion I think it’s almost always
Almost always about a found family in predominantly three locations because if you look at a show like look at the Bear right the bear is a masterpiece I think the bear is closer to taxi than any of us could ever imagine and arguably the bear is at its
Weakest I think when they leave those those three locations and if you start looking at friends or the office or porridge or open all hours or Dad’s Army these people are a found family in predominantly three locations Gavin and Stacy is two families that become one family and their friends become a family
Like the the the best stuff in the future will will be if you can we’re fundamentally I guess what I’m saying is we’re all just still the same I think I think like me you’re obsessed with TV aren’t you like I think that’s what maybe people don’t real would you would
You say that that that you know most normal people don’t sit there thinking about that that the way half out TV Comedy Works and yeah but but then I think I sort think the same the same about like the theater and I think it’s interesting if you look at the two
Hottest musicals in the West End right now the you or the last couple of years you they Guys and Dolls in their Cabaret but both Productions are presented in a very new and interesting and different what you would call a sort of semi immersive way like I do think I think
The historically you know there was a line in The History Boys that Russell Toy’s character used to say where someone said what is history and he’d say it’s one thing after the other you know yeah I think there’s probably a lot of Truth in that yeah so
Do you have now your back and now you know that part of your life which seems unreal as you said is there have you got loads of ideas fizzing around your brain that you want to and do you have to decide which thing you want to try and
Do is it is do you feel that way and is it you think leaning towards scripted um how how’s what’s going on in your brain at the moment I honestly I don’t know a lot of what’s going on is is uh boxes and new schools um constantly cursing the idea that we’ve
Chosen a school that seems to have one Road in and one road out which is the journey on the school run can be derailed by one Amazon van and it’s show there maybe brutal uh I don’t I mean I I’m s very purposefully trying to
Not do anything for a minute I think it would I think it’s a lot of it’s like a lot of a lot of content it’s a lot of TV like 1100 episodes is arguably 800 too many you know and so I think what I’m trying to do right
Now is is is perhaps just enjoy the the space of it I don’t really have any plans to do anything I’m not actively seeking anything um I mean the strike you know of course has has come a a a time you know like our last show was essentially every
Other talk show’s last show so maybe when those shows come back on I’ll probably i’ would be so weird if I didn’t have a moment of going ah that was a cool job um would you ever be tempted to do another you know I mean so you’ve been through that exhausting incredible
Process but maybe in years to come you think I might do that again or just something similar in the entertainment Chat Show sphere maybe maybe I I I I I don’t even I really don’t even see it as like my choice really I don’t it isn’t
It’s like I I’d be sort of open to anything I just enjoy I just enjoy trying things and going to work I really enjoy like doing stuff that that might you just you just don’t know you don’t know anything and there’s that you know that great thing of just you don’t know yet
So it would be so silly and arrogant to be like oh I shall never because who can say that you know so I think I’m always thinking of perhaps what to do but I’m just I guess what I mean is I’m just not really in like an overwhelming rush to I
Would hate the idea of not being there right now in this moment for our family like I’m really enjoying just being around I think that’s the most important thing I can do right now is just be there because I’m so conscious that we just picked up these three people and
Went we’re going to live somewhere else now um and and that that’s that’s the thing I’m I’m probably giving my most attention to but at some point I will start to think about I drop things down every now and then but probably almost all of them are awful you know
Very strong chance of that yeah um you also of course youve got your production company fourwh 73 yeah with your friends um that you run and you know stuff like the Kardashians do you do you get involved much in those shows does it vary from show to show do you take how
Much of an interest and how much involvement do you take in that stuff I’m very involved in the company you know there’s five of us but but the uh you know I’m I’m very very lucky that that I’ve for the last eight years I’ve got to go to work with my best
Friend who also Al I think happens to be I think the the best producer in the world I like it’s so amazing if there was any great thrill from that run that we had in America it was like just watching this guy who for for 10 years I
Felt like you know he you know we made the Smithy sketches for comic relief together and all these things and i’ just tell anyone that would listen like you got to meet this guy you got to meet this guy and then I guess the culmination of that is like him then
Doing like he now runs the Grammys and then the Kardashians show was was prob you know was a a probably a both of us just I met Chris Jenna at a a thing and she was talking about production companies and they’ve been meeting these companies and I
Said I said well you should come and you should come and meet us and she’d sort of said oh I think we’re going to I think we already know what we’re going to do and I said well what have you got to lose it’s a it’s a 35 minute
Zoom and so we we met her on this zoom and pitched her this idea that they used to make this reality show about the family and now arguably that show is about a group of extraordinarily successful business women and perhaps that’s now the the lens in which to to
Make the show but but in terms of the daytoday of that show I’m not I mean so far outside of my skill set I I mean I just wouldn’t even know where to start with like how to do it and that’s where you know Ben and Danielle who runs the
Show with Ben is extraordinary and that’s really what it’s been about but I really enjoy running the company and and doing those things I’m very proud of some of the shows that that that we’ve made over the last few years yeah yeah 100% And um do you take you mentioned
The bear for example do you take inspiration from that kind of show when you see that kind of show and think wow cuz you know in in its way pushing back the boundaries and do you do you think about that kind of thing if when you’re jotting your ideas down when the ideas
Come to you is that kind of thing important that well I think the thing I mean it’s it’s not even so much really even about just the bet it’s like I believe that FX which is run by John langra is the most extraordinary Network and where where they’re incredible is I
Think and I’m going to get this wrong but it’s it’s roughly right like the average employee time span at FX I think is something like eight years like and the guess the biggest lesson you can take from a a network like FX and what John langra has done with it is
They fundamentally know who Their audience are they’re not seeking a newer and broader one they’re just seeking they know who Their audience are like John once said to me he said the thing I say most in my office is this is fantastic it’s not for
Us and I don’t know if you see that across particularly a lot of the streamers where sometimes it feels like a race for a press release without a thought of well actually when this is finished is this right for our audience like the more you can know exactly who
Your audience are then you’re going to stand a much greater chance of having hit shows ITV is a great example of that I feel like ITV absolutely know who Their audience are like they they just they understand their audience they know who they are the advertisers know who they
Are and that’s why every that’s why they have this this you know great sort of success with some of the you know I’m a celebrity get me out like 20 years on TV it’s an extraordinary success yeah yeah and HBO I mean seems an example of of
You know there the emphasis on quality and boldness and daring seems to be still there for me the amazing thing about HBO is it’s fun I think I’m right and saying this that fundamentally the success of HBO came out of an absolute kind of Last Chance
Saloon where they were I think they were eight I think they had one more big fight night is this right I think they one more big fight night and then the the other their biggest fighter had left to go to Showtime so they were like we have 18 months of money
Before this might erode and disappear let’s go out making a show that we abolutely love has anyone read anything and someone was like I just read this script that’s a bit like Good Fellas um kind of thing said and they and it was Sopranos and I think that is something that’s
Lacking in in Commissioners today certainly in scripted is what you sometimes want to do is go is is you’ll get this feedback of like ah it’s not really performed and this that and the other and you go no no but do you like it yeah do you like it you back your own
Taste do you love it cuz if you love it that should mean something that should count for a lot really and maybe actually what we’re talking about is marketing maybe we’re talking about has this been sold in the right way maybe we should talk about has it gone out on the
Right night because if you love it and I love it and our audience tells us that people that have found it like it maybe it’s worth sticking with because by today’s metric the volume of shows that would have been I think pulled after six episodes extraordinary shows that never
Had the time never had the backing of of true creatives who just went no no I absolutely believe in this show well thinking of a show that started small on BBC 3 and then moved to BBC 1 yeah and became the 18 and a half 19 million people watched the last episode of
Governor Stacy that we’ve that we’ve seen so far so I’m un surprisingly we have run out of time I have to ask you what what is going to happen with G Stacy do you have any plan please please resolve that Cliffhanger I I just I I honestly I I I genuinely
Don’t I don’t know if we’ll I don’t know if we’ll ever do another one I don’t I I I don’t know I would love to I think Ruth and I would love to make something together again I I really don’t know if that will be Gavin and Stacy I think we
Feel so proud of that last special that and I know that people want like resolutions to that and all manner of other things that might be in the show but maybe there’s something great because those I think in a way those characters they live on they carry on
They’re still out there somewhere living breathing their lives are carrying on and we just sort of get together and open this portal and find out cuz some people would say to me I want to know what happens and I go so do I I don’t know I don’t I don’t know what
He says I don’t know yeah when we when it said marry me the end tell me tomorrow I’ll wait by the window for you that was like and maybe there’s something really perfect about it ending there can we can we truly fulfill people’s Ambitions for
It I don’t know so I I I I know it’s such an annoying answer I’m well aware of that but I I I don’t know can we can we top more nessers with nessers I don’t know yeah I don’t think it’s annoying us I think it’s a fair I think it’s a fair
Answer and it’s yeah maybe the best thing is to never know yeah who knows we’ll yeah we’ll see on that philosophical Point thank you so much James for coming pleasure thank you very much