Place Services and Economic Growth Policy and Scrutiny Committee

The agenda for this meeting can be found here:
https://cmis.essex.gov.uk/essexcmis5/CalendarofMeetings/tabid/73/ctl/ViewMeetingPublic/mid/410/Meeting/5144/Committee/129/SelectedTab/Documents/Default.aspx

Um good morning ladies and gentlemen and uh welcome to the place services and economic growth policy and scrutiny committee we going are we going live we are live uh so I’d like to welcome everyone to this meeting of the place services and and economic growth policy and scrutiny committee for those who are

Attending remotely at the moment the those present are the members of the committee together with any substitutes that we’re aware of and also a group of officers and once again here we are in committee room one which is our hybrid meeting room there are a few points that we ought to

Repeat uh and significantly important every time the speakers in the camera will track you and pick you up at the start of any discussion that you enter in uh so if wherever possible bearing in mind it’s being recorded please speak clearly I have a little note here about do not

Whisper that’s not uh it’s not a rude thing you can whisper as much as you like but just bear in mind that the microphones are very sensitive and they will often pick up a whisper that you didn’t want to be picked up so just caution anybody there wherever possible

Could you keep other sounds to a minimum so if you’re shuffling paper for those Lites like myself um please try and do it quietly uh I so the ceiling microphones will follow you around can I ask anybody that has a second device uh in the room to either

Turn it off or put it on silent and if possible unless you’re expecting the birth of your third child or the birth of your fourth grandchild or something can I suggest I’m was that what it was was it was that the last meeting oh congratulations in order um

No that was coming up all right Ohr well any okay thought you might know something I didn’t know absolutely not um again we’re not expecting a fire drill so if the alarm does go off please follow the offices out into out the building and gather in the cathedral

Grounds um as far as I’m aware the agenda pack has been circulated is there anybody that’s not received the agenda pack thank you um uh so item one is membership uh apologies substitution Declarations of interest uh We’ve quickly jumped through to page four uh and the list is there so can we

Have any um apologies substitutions and then we’ll move on to Declarations of Interest Justin thank you chairman um so uh apologies from councel Fleming we have councelor Barker substituting for her and apologies from councelor Wilds we have councelor Platt subbing for him and councelor Newport and councelor Crow

Should both be joining remotely this morning uh are there any Declarations of interest that anybody any members wish to make at this stage in accordance with the members code of conduct thank you can I just remind you um uh can I just remind you that if if

During the proceeds of the meeting you suddenly think there’s a member’s interest that should be noted can we please do that um item two on the agenda is minutes of the last meeting these have been circulated in your membership pack uh the meeting was held on the 23rd of

November are you comfortable that I sign these as a true and accurate uh record thank you are you further happy that the matters arising documented on page eight uh are taken as read thank you so could I just add on the matters arising could just add the one issue on

The lhp information that if rather than waiting for for the next meeting that the lhp comes up given it sort of follows on from the last TR that now Jus in it’s yeah that’s that’s a good point thank you much indeed um item three is questions from the public Justin no questions

Received okay working on to item number four which is the work program and the communications review Pages 9 to13 of your agenda uh we’re asked to note the work program uh and just to remind everybody of course that we are a member Le group if if any member feels they have an

Issue they would like to scrutiny and provided a comes under our list uh that’s very appropriate and that can come from yourself can come from another counselor can come from a resident I think it’s important that scrutiny isn’t seen as a top down it’s a bottom up type

Of thing um so if you have any uh items you’d like to have on the agenda can I ask you to make sure either I’m on of them or my vice chair two Vice chairman or Justin so we we move to I I can cancel Newport morning um could we add an item

To the work program for emergency planning please is that how yeah yes yeah I I think if I spoke to Council in Newport yesterday and I think it was particularly an issue around flooding that he wanted to raise which would fall under the remit of this commit so happy

To take that away and look to add that to the work program and is there a specific aspect of it is is just incorrect in saying it’s is it primarily flooding or general altoe yeah primarily flooding that I spoke to Justin about please which portfolio holder would that be I think that would

Be counc cuningham okay well as his due to be here on a regular basis we can I’m sure that we can fit that in in his uh in his schedule so we now move on to item number five uh recycling center vehicle booking system pilot I’m very pleased to Welcome to the meeting

Councelor Peter schwe who is a Cabinet member for Waste reduction and recycling Peter lovely to see you seem to be a really busy person at the moment so that’s great um together with councelor swe we do have Jason SS who is head of P waste policy and circular economy and

You win the prize for the best shirt and Katie you just look lovely Katie Chambers who is a circular economy development manager nice to see all three of you here are all three of you happy with me addressing you as Katie Peter and Jason abely yeah happy um the

Committee has asked to consider the presentation which is already included with your pack and circulated last week and hopefully most of you will have had a chance to have a good look at it I’ve certainly pre meeting we’ve had some bits and pieces uh so following the presentation there will be the

Opportunity for members to ask questions this is an opportunity for committee to consider the findings of the booking process pilot evaluation and emerging results so and and what I like about this and I think we all like about this this is the it’s it’s the biggest item I think we’ve

Had to scrutin before it so we really appreciate that and appreciate being asked first our contributions will help for the basis of the cabinet I’ll allow please come in come On give him a chance to s down Welcome you two guys okay I’m now chairman yes thank you good you okay good good okay Peter over to you okay um thank you very much chair and thank you uh we are um pleased to bring this towards you today um as you know this is about the res cycling and vehicle

Booking system and as the chair said we sent the document pack well in advance not only that um when this was under way the actual consultation I just like to give you a little bit of a background to that this is actually being action to the the U vehicle booking system plus

Our 21 recycling centers and initially this was launched in about February 22 limited to um a few sites to uh child that um was decided then to continue um and then what happened was is in March of this year um it was rolled out to all Sites uh 21 sites across the county

Which included the um feedback that we had from those users and those users were the Rel not only those that used V cars but also band so improvements were made um that then we and at that point we said that we would go out to con consultation so we did exactly that and

We went out to consultation for 6 weeks um and as you saw from the packs that we’ve had um a terrific response from residents with over 18,000 in all which is quite phenomenal and I believe it’s about the second uh most commented on consultation that esset County Council

Has done so we are here today uh not only to share those early consultation uh results which closed very recently just on the uh 19th of November but we wanted to um let you see those in detail and of course with um Jason and Katie here today they’re able

To answer any detailed questions of the emerging trends that we have in that and of course the actual consultation is being looked at by an independent consultant um and we’re going to give you an outline and an overiew with you and add more to the um booking process

And also the next steps of what’s going to happen early next year which you will have seen in your pack um so we are here today to take away and seeking your feedback uh on what has gone on so far with the household recycling system so

Uh there will be a short presentation um as Alan said uh we’re going to whis through that so that you um can I ask uh chair if it’s okay if we could try and get through both of that presentation quickly but should there be any real pertinent um detail questions and

Obviously we’ll take it but initially we’re going I’m going to ask Katie to um start on the presentation to go through it very quickly which should allow more than enough time for questions and answers from your committee do you want questions as slides occur or would you

Prefer to have them I think I think it would be preferable if we could get through the presid presentation um and if you if your committee members could note the questions so we can then ask them in answer them in detail going on so as to flow through because as you’ve

Had that pack and and hopefully read it all um this is just to give you uh an overview again of all the detail that’s gone on from the offic perspective as well okay so can we note that that if you got questions make a note them and

Have one big question session at the end thank you so I’ll um hand over to K which to take a through um so as you said we’ll go as you’ve had the pack we’ll go Fairly high level on this it’s really just to add a little bit of the narrative to um to

Some of the slides and information that’s already being shared so as you’re very aware we um brought in a trial booking process for the recycling centers for household waste starting in 2022 and the real purpose that sat behind that was to try and alleviate fling and congestion that sometimes

Place both on sites and around sites um to maximize operational efficiency and try and raise in that kind of sense of user satisfaction as well when they’re on site and experiencing the process such that then hopefully that would also encourage them to participate in segregating their waste and allow us to

To maximize the opportunity to recycle as much as possible so as councelor sh outlined we took a phased approach starting with a booking process for the um us using a large vehicle that’s a van a pickup truck um or a large trailer and That Was Then built upon by introducing a booking

Process specifically at Ry recycling center where there were some very local issues with um curing and congestion impacting on local residents and businesses followed by the full roll out which commenced in March 23 this year for all users at all Sites with exemptions for pedestrians cyclists and blue badge holders and throughout that

Process and by taking that phased approach it has allowed us to modulate the amount of bookable capacity that was made available to the different service users we’re also able to bring in same day booking so that a resident make booking between 15 minutes in advance if there’s space available up to six weeks

In advance so hopefully meeting some of those different needs around both flexibility and planning ahead um and we’ve also looked quite carefully at the timing of operational closures so that’s where we are required to close a site in order to carry out servicing activities to change the bins or carry out

Compaction um so we’ve looked at the timing of those how often do they happen typically at at an individual site level and to try and align that as closely as possible with the way the booking calendars were constructed next slide please so on the screen at the moment is

A summary of The Proposal on which we have consulted but just to outline the process that around that so it was a six week consultation delivered primarily online with alternative formats made available in various forms so prints large print and via the telephone contact center as well who were able to

Complete the consultation survey on the telephone for those that needed it um the consultation itself was promoted very robustly so people in all 74 libraries promoted there made available on the public access freeto use computers it was promoted at all recycling centers in terms of having large banners and leaflets were handed

Out we did a direct email to those people who’ve made a booking and given consent to be contacted about recycling centeres which was around 64,000 recipients um to which we saw really big surge actually in responses when when we did that direct communication and invitation to consult which was which was positive

Um we obviously supported it with a really robust campaign around General media relation digital marketing all the things that you would expect to see across as many channels as possible also working with partner organizations to our Center amplify and share that in their communities and the consultation surve

Survey itself was was quite short so it asked some general questions about how people interact with the service their frequency of use for example or which Center they most typically use and then just ask them some direct questions about to what level they agreed or disagreed with retaining a booking

Process for cars and for Vans but again throughout the survey allowing space for for commentary so there was opportunity to just give a view thoughts and Reflections that were captured within the survey as well next slide please we’re very pleased as Council said with the very very strong response

So over 18,000 responses and within that over 22,000 comments so it’s a very it’s significant um and it also gives us a really good amount of information with which to work and to try and understand perhaps why people’s level of agreement or disagreement is there so it gives us

Some context which is really useful just give a little bit more detail representation is actually across the county in terms of looking at population level so generally it matched quite well we did see slightly higher representation in the response from the atford area and slightly lower for Basildon and eping Forest and during

That consultation window while it was open we did modulate our Communications approach so if we were seeing a slightly lower rate of response in a particular area we did some additional Communications work to try and make sure there was a good level of awareness of the consultation obviously as you can see

There was quite um a strong preference for retaining a booking process for both cars and for Vans reasonably unusual but we had quite a strong response from identifying as male um often it’s the other way around you get more consultation response from people identifying as female so is that was

Unusual um and we had quite a good cross-section of response from a range of age groups as well so although it was still proportionately higher in the older age groups we had some good levels of response from from younger age groups as well and what we were particularly

Pleased to see was that users who told us in the consultation response that they had booked via telephone rather than using the online booking service did complete the consultation survey so I think that was something scrutiny asked us to look at at a previous session and make sure that we would we

Would reach th that audience with the consultation activity we were pleased to see that we have and we did also receive a small number of responses from Parish councils businesses and other organizations next slide please so I won’t dive into here but as you can see we’ve only got one area

Where agreement with retaining a booking process Falls below 50% and in all areas agreement with retaining a booking process for large Vehicles was was above the 50% line next slide please so where we are now in terms of the process is looking at what does the consultation tell us so

As Council sh outline we have an independent company going through those responses both the quantitative scores and the qualitative comments as well and it’s it’s no small undertaking um and then we we as an organization and with your inut as well starting to look at considering that consultation response

Um what we’ve got on the screen at the moment are very much emerging insights so these are drawn from the quantitating measures how people have responded and what they’ve told them about told us about themselves and their use of the service rather than the free text comments um something to perhaps to draw

Out is that we observe that net agreement with retaining a booking process went up as you move through towards older age groups um and also from Blue badge holders and what’s something we’re keen to look at is understand now from the free text commentary why that might be so so what

What’s the reasoning that sits behind that that level of agreement for those particular groups can move to the next slide thank you um so as we’ve said over 22,000 FreeX comments this is very much what’s on screen are just a small sample set taking different views of of the sort of

Top six themes of of commentary um and this looks at cars only so the these are drawn not from the the van’s question um where we are now is we will go we’re going through this and then we’re looking to group these together and draw out those key insights and that will be

Part of the consultation analysis report that will be published in due course think I’m hand B thank you Katie um in addition to the um the formal consultation activity with we’ve also done um a range of um work to evaluate the impact of theing process both on

Operation but also some of the softer um side of things in terms of the impacts to have on users of the of the service so I just want to spend just a few moments just roaring out some of the the key themes um I know we’re going to take

Questions at the end but if there’s anything I put on the slide you just don’t understand particularly with some of these charts then I’m happy to take um you know specific questions just to just to clarify any points if there’s something you don’t understand um Fly tipping has obviously been a major um

Area of concern that’s been raised um not just with with this activity but whenever we make any changes to Waste Services whether that be County Council or um changes that District or burrowers um make to their services so it’s important that we look at um any effects

Um that these sort of service changes may have on instances of fly tipping um the the slide is just up on on the um on the screen at the moment is is actually taken from a range of national research undertaken by defra um keep tidy um campaign for the protection of rural

England and other similar bodies trying to understand why people fight tip um and some of this actually comes from um from interviews with individuals who have um admitted to fly tipping um in the past um and what you’ll see is there’s a whole range of different factors um which um motivate people to

To fight tip there’s not just one single reason why an individual fly tips and there’s not just one single reason why fly tipping happens within an area so I just wanted to to place that as a little bit of a context for the um for the um

Discussion that we’ll we’ll move on to um and again just as a reminder fly tiing happens in lots of forms um so often we think of fly tiing as that um picture that’s in the center of the screen you know a large amount of of mixed waste um being deposited in the

Middle of a um of of a highway um but of it can take a much um smaller um and and softer approach so a black sack left been um you know a bit of overflowing recycling next to to to recycling Banks um and something we’re seeing actually increase um particularly in rural areas

Um green garden waste um being left on on verges um or in um in field boundaries um because people think that’s fine if what’s down it’s not really fly tipping so again we have the these sort of different you know different types of fly tipping that

Happen which again all of them will be counted slly tipping and their all will be recorded as slly tipping when reported through to a through to a council um in terms of the the picture across Essex um this slide just shows the um the quarterly um returns that

We’ve had from um all eics authorities backed over the last last few years um and um we we’ve been unable to identify any direct link between the booking system um and the the changes um in flight shipping within the um within the county um what we have seen is um a a

Gradual increase um which has been hist over a number of years and very much mirrors the national picture as well um but also when we break this down and we look at this on a subcount level so we start looking at the picture for individual districts it becomes even

More mixed we think some areas where flight has gone up and has gone up quite significantly um over recent um recent quarters we’re seeing other areas where it’s remained static and some areas where it’s actually gone down so again we’re seeing this real mixed picture which again would be unusual to see if

We were going to have a direct correlation between and fight you’d expect to see a same sort of picture across um pretty much across the across the county um the other thing just to um just to um mention um s on this is in terms of the um compar comparing flight tipping over

A period of time again it’s becoming more and more complex because of the the different approaches that are made in terms of recording flight tipping this actually doesn’t um doesn’t um represent actual flight tips this represents what is reported as fly tipping so sometimes we do find over a period of time

Different um propensity for people to report fly tipping people are more is there any correlation between um counties who do not have a booking system compared to those that do have a booking so one of the comments would be because you’ve introduced a booking system fly tipping will go up is there

An answer that says even in areas that don’t have booking systems fly tipping has gone up we’ve seen fly tipping go up across the country regardless of any booking system that may be in place and equally um when defra um Comm Mission some research into booking systems and

Fly tipping they were unable to identify any correlation between areas that had booking systems and the flight to be levels that are being reported within those areas um when I asked time to skip there very restrictions of what I could put in a skip when we looked to H

Skip recently you if you want to put a washing machine or a tumble drve in a skip as well as a skip charge there is now a 30 or 35 charge for that so you pay your £240 for a skip put washing machine in is another 35 quid if you put

A sofa in it’s another 30 so I do wonder whether some of that is feeding through into the into the system because you know Skip’s expensive enough if you want one but they don’t want your suur and your washing machines and you know I know that because that’s

But I just wonder if that’s part of the story as well again I think that may well be part of the story what we’ve seen is a number of changes happen within um Waste Systems During the period that we’ve had the booking system and an example of that is um from the

Early part of last year there have been much tighter restrictions placed on how you dispose of soft Furnishings for example which is why most skip companies now don’t allow you to put soft Furnishings in skips and again that has led to a greater propensity for for people to to illegally disp of those

Types of materials so again we’re seeing lots of different factors that are driving fly chipping and I think that’s just an important takeaway that we need to recognize on this I think I’ll let councelor pla just come in from a commercial point of view and then councelor PL I think on soft Furnishings

There’s a lot to do with I think it’s pep Pops Pops Pops nearly pops and if you’re putting if you’re putting your sofa into a skip there’s an on cost quite a significant on cost now of getting rid of that sofa because of the actual process in the manufacturer of

That sofa and the chemicals that are used to make it fire retardant um and so so I understand completely about where that’s that that’s coming from yes it’s interesting um about the fly tipping scenario and not being linked necessarily to the booking system from a wider context one the

Chairman brought out um I don’t think we’ve seen anything significant in in my canc black yeah thank you chairman um I’m sure every district is is probably different but even Castle Point without a doubt we’ve seen a dramatic rise in Flight chipping since the booking system

Come in um the latest data I just got yesterday just for November was a 66% increase in fly tipping um and you know a street seen are constantly going out and I think a lot of it which is been flighted would probably be stuff that would normally take down uh to the

Recycling site I think I’m not against the booking system because I’ve used it myself I think education needs to come um quite a lot um because you know it could be costing districts extra money going out picking up um constant fly tipping only this week two of our local

Nature reserves are a closed because of fly tipping um and so you know be interesting can I just one question one question we failed to get was data showing the usage of of our recycling site since the actual um booking system come in whether it is down whether it is

Up because when I’ve been going there it seems quite empty to be honest yeah I mean we we we can come on that later on in the in the slide de I’ll pull out some some detail around around the usage but yes we have got some data which we can we can continue

To share should I draw a line under that and just ask everybody okay with that and we’ll come back questions at the end thanks um and just just moving on and just closing off around fly tipping we look at some of those key reasons that um that have come through from National

Researchers to white people fly tip and look to see whether there is a a rationale as to whether the booking system has made that problem worse or exacerbated that particular issue um I’m not going to go through this in detail I’m sure you would have read these

Within the agenda pack but again we haven’t really been able to identify anything where the booking system per se has resulted in either additional um you know additional complexity of the system or impacting on costs or or making things more you know significantly more inconvenient for people so again we

Haven’t really been able to identify any direct links to between that booking system and a justification for an individual to then take a decision to go and flight to their their waste um picking up on the on the point that the council blackall just raised around some of the changing patterns in

Waste and also changing usage of the of the recycling centers we we have got some data looking at user throughput although that is not terribly accurate because often people will just go down less frequently but the same amount of waste so what we’re actually viewed to try and get a picture of what’s

Happening at recycling centers is looking at the throughput of waste at the centers and what we have seen is ways to go down um since the the instruction cing system but again this is following a trend that we’ve seen happening over a number of years um and predates the introduction of the booking

System um we’ve also looked at whether that waste is just being transferred into the collection systems that District bur and City councils operate so whether that’s curbside collections or Street cleansing or or flight tip clearances and although um the waste that the districts are picking up has increased it’s actually increased by

Much smaller amount than what’s been lost at the recycling centers in terms of Sorry by a much larger amount than what’s been lost at the recycling centers so we’re not seeing this sort of direct movement everything from the recycling centers is going curbside collections curbside collections are actually just just increasing any anyway

Because there just more waste being generated from those those properties so again we’re not we’re not recognizing this direct movement of waste from one area and all of it just you know ending up within the within another um I also just wanted to um quickly touch on the um on the issues

Around curing and um curing and congestion which again if we go back to the rationale for the the delivery of this um service change this was one of the key focuses right trying to tackle some of the queuing issues we had at sites and congestion issues we had ons

Sites trying to improve safety under those those facilities um and also just make them you know more efficient to operate in terms of servicing vehicles um and you know the way in which site staff were able to to deliver the service on site um and what we’re seeing

Again through both survey responses but also on-site observations is human levels have gone down the sites are quarter but again you know they’re still being able to provide the level of service that people want we’ve still got availability of book slots um and you know the the sites are I mean they were

Never unsafe but they are are a safer environment you’ve got less um interaction between vehicles and pedestrians because they’re just you know they’re just more um you know more space on those sites for people to move around and actually dispose their waste appropriately please um I just really

Want to just finish off in terms of the um the evaluation again on on this issue around customer satisfaction because again there was a concern when delivering any change of this nature um of recycling centers is the impact it has on the on the user service are they

Actually still able to get into those sites and use those sites um you know in a in an easy and accessible way again you know the survey responses we are we’ve um received um through this process have been positive in terms of individuals views around how easy the

Service is to use and how easy that booking system is is able to you know to be used and we’re also got that good mix where we we’re still able to provide that service for those that perhaps aren’t um digitally enabled for those that are reliant on on making bookings

By by telephone the um the telephone booking approach is being used by by individuals um and um is available for those who who aren’t able to get get online so again we seem to have that that you know good balance between a system which is able to deal with some

Of the operational challenges we have at the sites but ensuring that individuals can still are still able to access the service um finally I just wanted to briefly just touch on on on next steps and again you know you’ll all be familiar as as the chairman said

Decision around this has not been taken it is part of that process um K mentioned the um analysis um of the consultation is still ongoing in terms of getting into the detail of the um of the the free text responses made the comments people made to consultation that together with the discussions today

Will will help to form um and develop the the recommendation consultation responses will be made available on publicly so they will be published um and we’re working through a timeline the decision being taken by um by cabinet um during um early part of next year as scheduled for around

Um um and on that I think we are open now to questions okay uh can you keep your hand up and I’ll uh make a note okay so who doesn’t [Laughter] want right uh in no particular order of importance uh let’s start over here I think you read your hand up first thank

You chairman thank you KY Peter and Jason for the presentation today everything that’s gone along with that and the work behind it um was mentioned about recycling centers being quite um I just wondered whether that was in part perhaps due to the efficiency of the system and and you know I believe

It’s a 15 minute slot that you actually allocate to each booking um it’s doesn’t take me 15 minutes to to empty my my little car um so is that in part due to the efficiency are we seeing less people there because they’re going through in such things the process and more

Efficient way um and is there any scope of looking at your 15 minute slot is that the right amount of time should we be considering 10 and then maybe having more slots available across the day y if I can take that one um I think in terms of the the the sites imping

Quarter um I think that’s just a a reflection you say of the the fact that we’re now spreading people out through the working day I mean the sites always had qu times but of course you always focus on the times when it looks really busy because they’re the ones when

You’re sitting in a queue and you you notice it if you’re able to just spread people out through through the day yeah the natural result that is it just is Quant because you’ve got people actually operating you know spreading their their movement so I think it is just an

Outcome of any sort of booking system to to moderate that that flow remove those cues um and it just just you know ends up being being significantly Quant we’re also and again this is something that come through on some of the survey responses a number of respondents were saying they had changed

Their behavior in the sense that rather than going down frequently with small amounts of waste they were going down potentially less frequency but with a car boot full rather than just with a couple of bags so so they were moderating the frequency go but still taking down a similar similar amount of

Waste um in terms of the the booking slots that’s a constant um L of area of review as to whether we um extend sorry whether we shorten the the booking slot time period whether we just make more booking slots available for each site and we look at that on a site by- site

Basis so yeah there there will be more you know opportunity I think there the decision is taken to um on a permanent basis that’ll be something that will’ll be looked at um and C how we make sure that we’ve got as many bookings any time period for that

Particular great thank you um remotely councelor Newport are you okay oh thank you chairman I expect to coming so quick um thank you we can make your slot a bit shorter yeah that’s okay um in terms of um so in my own area rodford I mean it’s been you

Know it’s been welcome system but looking at the consultation responses by location obviously there’s there are still quite a few areas that um aren’t quite so happy with the booking system what work will be carried out to dig into that deeper to to find out what issues they are having with the booking

System because I don’t think from from first glance of this I don’t think a one siiz fits all approaches is a good approach myself and I think we do need to we do need to look at that further to identify what issues those those those residents are experiencing and booking and using the

System um the other thing I was slightly disappointed with is that we don’t actually have the the real numbers here they’re just percentages of of responses I’d have like to have seen how many people per area had responded to um the consultation so I’ll just leave it there

Because I’m sure there’s other questions thank you chair can I um just mention thank you uh good question um of course we actually that’s what the whole purpose of the consultation was um with regards to your second uh part of the question and of course now that it’s been

Independent uh looked at that will come out in the detail following the consultation uh which will be published online so that inform will be um available as we know more and we can drill down into the detail of that um but just on the other question that you ask about uh your particular

Patch and the two details I’ll let Jason yeah I I I think um counc with regards to the um drilling down understand why particular areas were perhaps less um enthusiastic about the booking system than other areas I think we’ll be very much relying on the the free text commentary that went alongside the

Responses from those those areas so that’s 22,000 comments that were made as part of the consultation that’s part of the coding that’s happening at the moment so we will understand for either a particular site um or a particular um District um in terms of the sorts of

Comments that are being made um from those those responders in those areas and that I think will help us then to to look again if the decision is taken to adopt the booking system to look at what modifications changes alterations might need to be made to the um to the booking

System um or the approach in in in those areas so that will form part of the development of the of the overall recommendation um in terms of the the details of the number of people that responded in each area that information is available and we will um circulate

That via VIA Justin after this meeting if that’s helpful we try to just get get these charts so they’re as clear and concise as possible but yes we do have that that detail exactly the number that responded from each individual um individual District area um but also um

For each individual site um where that where the individual obviously identified that we had a small number where people perhaps didn’t respond to that that particular question but just to make the committee aware and I Katie mentioned this in her um opening presentation when we look at it on a on

A district byd district basis we had a good level of representation commensurate with the population of that district for for pretty much all areas as C mentioned we had you know a slight over representation for respondents within the atford area and a slight lower representation from respondents

Within um bason um and eping Forest but most other parts of the county were pretty much umel was was commensurate with the population of that area are you okay with that as an answer yes thank you very much chairman Just One Last sorry I’ll just forgot to say

All I would all I would really hope is that we retain the the phone booking system that has been that that’s something that has been asked for a lot and it has worked obviously thank you councelor g hi thanks um yeah obviously I represent the objectionable area of

Alford which is clearly clearly the stand out from all of this um and I did Market test this morning on the way down I thought i’ get rid of my empties on the way down VI book assist so I think from our point of view where we’re riing

On the saff warden one it’s a really good Center we’re lucky in the location it’s off a main road we don’t have any of queing issues that everyone else has we don’t have any of the congestion issues so um position work really well bringing in the 50 minutes before you go is helps

Enormously um I’m impressed by the consultation impressed by everything that’s happening I think from our perspective we’re just you know it was two minutes of my life wasted booking it’s two minutes my life queing up a bit more while while everyone’s bookings are being tested so I just I think

Everything I’m hearing locally is that basically we had a perfectly good system before that worked we didn’t we and I I recognize this is purely a parochial one saff Warden didn’t have issues before so I think everyone locally is just saying please come you know please come we be

Out of it because actually it doesn’t make our life any easier and it just wastes a little bit of our time um but absolutely recognizing all the issues elsewhere um yeah I mean yeah so we hear we hear what you what you what you’re saying we we also recognize and again

This is a theme that’s coming through and Katie mentioned it um in some of the comments that we we’ve drawn out already yeah there is a differing level of view across the county you know obviously there are some sites that um required a booking system much more than other

Sites and yes we recognize sa W is probably at that that that lower some of the challenges um however one of the things I I would just mention is that although the level of congestion and curing at sa world was is relatively low um and has you know a relatively

Small impact on on users of that site there was still an operational impact of that sort of congestion at that site even when we look at our servicing Vehicles going into empty containers if they’re held up going into sites by 10 or 15 minutes you start multiplying that

Up across the service that can result in needing an additional servicing vehicle additional drivers you know additional cost that comes with that to try and manage the network as a whole so it is trying to just just strike that right balance I think that that’s one of

Things I just like to like to be noted so just as follow up on on on that point there is there any opportunity for being a site with a different set of rules it’s something we have looked at and it’s something we will continue to consider and I’m sure that um Council sh

Will will consider as as the the recommendations are developed I think our one area of concern about having a um a very flexible approach which is different depending on location or site um is the the the added level of confusion that can cause in terms of

Users of the service you end up with you know some sites you have to book other sites you don’t you might have booking at certain times of the day and not at other times it’s comes just quite a complex picture then in terms of users that are trying to use that service

There’s also and it might not be a particular issue with saff wal but there’s also the concern that you start to um move people from certain sites into other sites and you all you do is shift a problem elsewhere um so again it’s about that that careful management

So there is certainly where we’ve seen booking systems um operate successfully elsewhere they’ve generally operated on single approach simple to communicate simple for everyone to understand that operates across the network rather than having a a mismatch of different approaches because that’s where you potentially get levels of confusion it’s

Something obviously you know we will continue to look at we we look at as we develop the recommendation but that is probably the key area of a concern that we have about sort of a a flexible approach that has different different approaches across across the network councelor Sheldon thank you Mr chairman

Thank you for your your presentation um it’s been interesting looking actually the the my finger on the pulse of public opinion in C point on this it started off quite hostile and then people started to use the system found it incredibly easy there was a Tipping

Point some probably say in about the ORS and now I think most people are pres in favor that’s responded quite well here on the on the on the chart the question I’ve got think it really interests me the most particular with with our Civic inan Recycling Center which is on one of

The roads one of two roads onto nor of CI island is that level of congestion and cues because frequently around bank holidays we used to see in fact our guys used to put signs out didn’t they saying saying um you know there’s going to be

Lucky to be cues here and there I would really like that that granular level data particularly if possible for that site around bank holidays and around just in general I’m sure we can get it because you know if it’s available on Google Maps and it’s available then um

On our own congest on our own highway system and we should be able to get it because I think we see a massive decrease in Journey times around those times because of this booking system because people aren’t queueing particularly at bank holiday weekends I’d very much like to see that um

And if I can just actually just also add to councelor gad’s point I I bizar enough I think counselor Gad is probably one of the people who can actually make that point because without because Battlefield is so big I can imagine that if you know you went to

A booking station other side of atford you know you you wouldn’t you wouldn’t drive to the other side of atford all those many many miles would just we don’t have another practice the alternative is to go to Bishop Bishop stford which is out of S6 which is probably which is what

Most people do so that wouldn’t sure up but but you’re right that there isn’t really any suit there isn’t really any substitution ability so most people can go to Bishop stalford and dump their stuff without having their car checked anyway be checked by Parts Council Council they have a booking system anyway

Yeah put your geographical points uput your rights thank you Council harleywood yeah M mine was around um peak times where I know others have spoken about uh peak time with a queue and there times I’ve not used the booking system I’ll be honest I haven’t been recently but I was

Quite aware that in our area you did have peak times with qes but you also had literally well dead times when there was no one there and what occurred to me is that when you’ve got those times which are not being used if they were in

Effect free times so you didn’t need to book would that encourage the people that religiously use the busy times to think oh I don’t need to book I can pop down in that window I imagine part of the answer might be from um Jason’s point about um one size

Fits all means that everybody knows the rules and knows but if that was posted on the website between that window you don’t need to book you can just pop down would there be a a willingness for some people to say well actually I can go

That time I haven’t got a book I’ve just bang it in and po down I don’t know it’s just a thought I wonder what your view I mean again I I think that’s something that you know if this system was adopted it’s something could be looked at but

Again I think the concern comes back to are you just shifting the problem again you’re creating another peak of time and you’re then just constantly having to move when is the free slot all that becomes too popular you’re gonna have to R A booking system during that time and

Then you as you say you just end up keep moving the the gold post continuously and that’s where it starts to become quite complex for service user to understand exactly what they need to do to get into those sites so I think that that would probably again come back to

My earlier comment about trying to manage throughput at all times is is the most appropriate way to to to deal with this once you start having a different approach different times it just can cause additional confusion and just shift the problem you know to to to a different time but again it’s something

I think we we have to continue to to to to consider and look at to see whether that was appropriate something and and as Jose mentioned um not only it’s about the throughput in the efficiency but it’s also allowing residents to actually plan when they want to take it and the most efficient

Point and also um it does reflect on the safety and operations of site as well because some of the sites we need to close at certain times to change out and in order to consider operational safety we may have to close it for half an hour

So if we were to have a site that was open for the middle part and one or two bins had to be swapped out because they were full um then that would cause um an issue I think with residents who would turn up and the site would be closed while swap outs were

Going on so overall the booking system as as Jason mentioned is to is to help the uh Peak slim the Peaks and choughs that ensure a constant demand and also the fact that our staff were able to constantly help our residents uh guide them to the right bin so they actually

Get to the site quicker too and have better overall experience Council Advance thank you very much chair um yeah a couple of points if I may um some kind of suggestion some exploratory my site which is in jig R which I use used to be one many years ago when I

Used to go there I used to be able to take whatever I like down there and now all of a sudden it’s become restrictive to what you you could actually take and I just wondered why sites weren’t multifunctional in terms of the items that they can take still take down there

As an example you know many of us do local do do our own work at home an example of mine is I change the bathroom over and I want to get rid of the toilet well two years ago they would accept the toilet now they told me sorry mate you

Got to drive five miles down the road to another site to to just get rid of that one item so I I just wonder why sites are not multifunctional the other point I just need Clarity on is you give data for both cars and vans and I understood

Vans were mainly commercial and I I don’t could you just clarify for me what you mean by cars and vans and because I understood that commercial vehicles weren’t allowed on some sites as well uh so I just wanted to get an understanding of that with regard to fly tipping

Obviously fly tipping has an impact on local authorities all that mess you know not not essic County Council so the the cost and the burden is is passed over to local authorities and I just wondered any feedback about local authorities about the impact because I do note with on your

Slides as was alluded to earlier that over the last 3 to six months flight has increased significantly since the booking system has happened and I just wonder if that is a uh result of that booking system so just gently yeah those things um and lastly could Peter could

You just sort of highlight when we remove all the rubbish from those sites they probably obviously go to local incinerators and about the relationship between different counties and incinerators and possibly the cost of those for bringing up to speed with some of those things as well um yeah that was it

Basically I think there’s four questions there um I’ll let Jason ask answer the majority of it um but actually the point of our recycling uh centers is actually to recycle and reuse that again so it’s not a um place for sort of general what I would describe or you probably call

The black bag rubbish that is obviously done by the colle authorities um but I think I’ll ask Jason to answer the other technical points start off with the the sort of the policies at the sites you’re absolutely right we do have a um a differentiation between some of our

Sites we have to is large sites and small sites so the large sites um do accept all waste types and all household waste types and all vehicle types small sites such as chigwell um don’t accept um Vans or or large Vehicles large trailers um and don’t accept um

Construction down from waste the reason why we have that different differentiation was very much in response to congestion issues we’ve had historically so we we identified that where we had those small sites that were really struggling with their throughput we would limit the types of vehicles

That could go to them and limit the type of waste that could go into those sites as a means of trying to manage the ongoing congestion issues we had particularly at those sites whilst um it’s not part of any decision we’re be taking the cabet will take around the

Booking system adoption of the booking system may enable us to revisit some of th those changes we have at some of those smaller sites because if we’re able to now manage throughput through a booking system it might provide an opportunity to to revisit the vehicle types and the the waste types that are

Allowed into those sites which might again be be of a benefit to the the local community so that’s something that may be unlocked result um in terms of the um the the fly tipping um you’re absolutely right um clearance of of waste from streets um the function of

That waste it’s with the um Council so that they’re responsible for collecting that waste and they will have um a service in place and and place that going around clearing streets and clearing flight tips the actual disposal material still comes through to the County Council so actually the bulk of

The cost associated with clearing you know getting rid of that fly tip waste so the actual disposal element still sits with with the County Council rather than being in a different bar or city council um we have had discussions with all of the um waste collection authorities so District Bar

And cities around any um particular concerns they have around the ability of their existing service to to collect that fly tipping and we’re not hearing any we haven’t had any feedback to date that they’ve had to lay on additional vehicles additional staff to start collecting that ways they’re able to

Accommodate within their their existing service provision but that will be an ongoing discussion that we will continue to have with them to make sure that we are um able to support them and I think again one of the the the areas that we are very focused on as as a as an sex

Was partnership is how do we actually Target those individuals that are feeling that’s a responsible thing to do to flight up their waste because ultimately there’s nothing that Within These service changes that really justify somebody going out to flight at waste important that we we

Tackle and use the full force of the the powers available to local authorities in terms of fixed penalty notices prosecution investigations um to to to stop those individuals liting that that needs to be needs to be the the core focus in terms of where the waste goes

Um the waste comes into into the recycling centers um as um counc mentioned um the majority of that is actually recyclable waste green guard waste will go off to to composting facilities within the county um the dry recycling will go off into into the recycling Market both

Within um within tic but more likely outside the county because it’s a sort of obviously a national picture in terms of the the residual waste so the stuff that can’t be recycled which is a little under half of the of the waste generally um that is I’m currently going into

Landfill um so that’s going to landfill sites predominantly in cester but also a landfill site in in opon um so that’s the sort of the roots that those those materials are currently going through sorry just to follow up if I may um I forgot to ask questions comments that

You’ve got I noticed three of them are positive and three of them are negative I just wonder if you could when you come back to us again in the in the new year um give us some update as to the comments a universal booking process is unnecessary he encourages fly tipping

And the process of the site could be improved obviously there must be some data somewhere around about to for you to make that I don’t necessarily look for answers today but I mean it would be good if we could get some updates as to how you are responding and reacting to

Those comments and sorry my last one was I didn’t quite get the difference so between cars and vans oh sorry yes Vans go on to site are they commercial or are they me Joe blogs my my own personal V yeah Sor sorry I missed that one um yes

I mean um what what we don’t allow on the site is commercial waste so business waste is not allowed into the sites if you happen to have a business van and you’re you’re bringing your household waste you’re you’re allowed into the site so so we don’t don’t differentiate

Between commercial Vans or private Vans it’s the waste that they’re actually carrying that we’re preventing coming into the site so if you happen to have a van for your business or you happen to have a personal B and you’re getting rid of your own household waste you’re welcome to come in discriminate between

That because here are my jail blogs plumers and I’m going and do my garden waste and I say to the guy on the site no mate it’s all my garden rubbish I’ve got in here and he says okay on your go but I’ve just actually been down the

Road and done a job that’s an that’s an ongoing challenge that we have on the sites um and and generally we deal with that by looking at the frequency with which people are coming into the sites if they’re coming in very frequent with the same sorts of waste it’s a general

Indication they’re probably bringing in commercial waste in which case they will be stopped from coming in or the types of waste they bring in if they’ve got plumbing supplies on the side of their van and they’ve got a load of Plumbing um stuff in the back of the van again

It’s a strong indication they’re likely to be a commercial operator and they they will be they will be declined entry into the site finally chair how do you deal with the abuse of that we have a very um well we’re obviously supporting all of our site stuff um we have some

Very robust sight stuffff we’ve got um cameras on SES body War cameras for our site staff um they’re we supporting them through that process we obviously you know very conscious of um the need to to protect those those those staff on site we have good relationships with um

Police um in terms of calling them down on site if there are issues on on particular sites but yeah it is a it is a challenging environment um unfortunately you know if we are in the situation where site staff are feel they’re at risk um you know they then

Either allow the person into the site to dispose of the waste um and action will be taken after the event um or in some extreme circumstances we have had to shut SES where um issues have started to escalate and called um called the police

Onto the side and when I go on my local one um is there a I asked this the last time you were here is there the ability for when I go to look to book something to say what is permissible and what’s not permissible on that

Side and so at the moment no the booking technology that we’ve been using so far and obviously subject to to decision in the new year has been a very much a lowcost trial-based solution and we’ve kept it as simple as possible we didn’t want to add owner steps in for the users

However I think in the event that we look at retaining a booking process permanently then that’s something we’d want to explore we’re also looking at at the moment there’s work already underway to improve the existing love essics website which is where people are sign posted through to the booking process to

See if we can also improve again how people interact and see ideally for example it would be great if people could say say if someone wanted to bring um of bathroom suite for example that it straight away indicates which sites are able to take that material which helps

The users to make the right decision about where to book for I think Improvement that would be great because you know saves you driving down there to be told turned away because I just happened to have a shower tray or a toilet or something and I get really

Hacked off told I have to drive five miles and I’ve just driven to my local yeah that would and there for Council Barker for District Council remove items of setes mattresses three items for a tenis so you can save yourself 30 qu ches a lot more and just for everyone’s benefit in

Terms of the the 22,000 responses yeah we have those six responses we had on the screen um earlier um we we didn’t actually purposely pick three positive three negative we we we had some early coding of of um of responses from an earlier cut of the data and it just

Happened that when they coded them rank them there was there were three in the top I think the top dozen or so there was they would pretty much split half and half between positive and negative responses so hence the the the comments we put on there but we will be or um

Independent um organization is analyzing this will be codifying so they will look at every single response and they will put it into a category so that you know all all similar responses around the same sort of scene will be be put in that category and then we’ll be able to

Bring that back so we’ll be a to actually give you much more granularity around this is the respones that being made this is the proportion of responses about this particular thing we will also be able to cut that up in terms of responses around particular sites or particular locations so if there’s a

Particular problem at well that will come through in the sort of free text responses from from users of that side thank you CH I can add something to that because uh my vehicle of choice for those that know me is a is a four-wheel drive 4×4 truck uh so I’m not classed as

Commercial but it’s a commercial vehicle so um with that comes as it happens an interesting situation because I’ve been under the system for booking with my truck since January so I’ve had to I’ve the years the year experience of it um and and you’re quite right they do poke

Around in the back and have a little look um but the one comment I’m going to make is that the level of service that I experience and have experienced over the years has dramatically dramatically dramatically changed for the better and uh feedback I’d like to give is is that

The particular site that I use which is the one I collect and the help and uh assistance it’s given by um the operatives I don’t know what what the word is these days but the operatives is first class and they’re particularly helpful with uh and have the time and

The facility in my view to be able to deal with the elderly and those less fortunate um and and certainly I’ve noticed a real preponderance for looking after ladies on their own so that’s it I’m going to ask one question which if she’d have been here I’m sure Shane

Fleming would have asked um how do bearing in mind that um fight tipping a lot of is in country lanes Etc and in fields and a lot of that will be the responsibility of the farmer whether he likes it or not what numbers do we have

If any about that level of fly tipping do are they are their numbers taken into account or because there’s no responsibility they’re not taken into account how does that work work it’s an interesting question but you’re quite right um if fly tipping goes onto a private land owner it is a

Land owner’s responsibility to remove that um as you say the majority of that um expense will be uh borne by the landowner or all of the expense will be um and it’s very difficult to get a lot of information about that because it’s dealt on a private basis as you

Suggested um although obviously we work closely with nfu and the CLA on that it’s very difficult to be able to get that kind of detail or that granular detail that you’re after because basically it’s not really well known and I don’t know if Jason wants to add any

More comments to that the the only thing I make is is that people questioning statistics always and if there is um if there is let’s just say 3% or 5% increase in fly tipping some might say in here if we’re not including any of the

Nfu sites um then how do we how do how how do we not know how how do we know that it’s not working that’s the question well I mean and and also it’s um any sort of little larger tips that sometimes do occur and if there’s a question whether it’s actually on the

Land owners or that that then becomes responsibility of the environmental agency uh to clear up because of some of the consequences of that fly tipping as as well but I I’ll refer to Jason just for a bit more detail yeah I mean just to reiterate um council’s comment

There’s local authorities are um are required to report their flight if nationally through to through to deathrun so through to the department environment um there’s no obligation no similar obligation on private end owners so we end up with quite a mixed picture some of it does get reported through um

Some as mentioned by nfu CLA and and and other other similar bodies but we haven’t got any long-term consistency in terms of what’s been gathered um and the level of data that’s actually been been recorded over a period of time so it’s difficult to look at those Trends what

We do know is you know we’re perfectly aware that fly tipping remains an issue for land owners not just within S6 but in in in in all all rural areas particularly um we will reach out again to um I think particularly to the the nfu who I who I I understand from

Councilor Fleming when we last spoke about this have been Gathering data over the last um year or so from a number of their members in terms of um reported you know flighting levels they’re seeing on their their land and we look to bring that into um into the final evaluation

Report but I think we just need to have a little bit of caution around that that it’s it will be inconsistent data that’s been gathered periodically in different ways over a period of time um and undoubtedly because of the much greater level of focus from land owners on

Flight most recently we’re probably fine actually that they’re they’re recording it much more vigorously than perhaps they were were in the past when they were dealing with it um as a as As a matter of course but we will look to bring that through and we’ll we’ll we’ll

Reach out again to those bodies for for what data they have councilor SLE thank you Mr chairman yeah a couple of things really um time I don’t think your consultation or your study of the timing of this has been long enough I think there’s clearly a trend upwards in pry

You know we’ve sort of seen that from the data and I think the taste is really good I you know i’ support the other colleagues have spoken on that you know it’s been a really good presentation so I think time I think the trend is upwards I think to know carrying on into

The new year and obviously there’s a few more months to go um we’ve all been to a restaurant haven’t we where we say we there’s nobody in it and the guy on the door says have you booked and you look at the restaurant you think what what Earth you ask me

That question um I just hope that there is a pragmatic approach going on in in um because there’s nothing worse in terms of recycling or for the planet to send somebody away and then have to come back another day you know so I would hope that that’s going on I don’t know

Whether it is or not maybe we can answer that question um and why aren’t we encouraging um commercial waste you know that the word recycling to me means a benefit to community and benefit to the planet why aren we encouraging more recycling of commercial waste even if we

Char um I think first of all on the very first point about um data um yes it’s always nice to have more data the more data the more robust any decision um can be um we will be doing as I said further turn on this prior to um decision being

Taken to get the the next round of fly tipping data within this um within this data set so we’ve got as much as much data as possible um on the issue of of a pragmatic approach um yes I totally agree with you there’s nothing more frustrating than some you turn up nobody

There and someone say heavy built um at the moment um site staff um when someone does turn up and they haven’t booked they’re not being turned away from the site they are being un permitted into the site they’re being kindly they they’re being reminded of the need to

Book in the future um to to because that if we we let that get out of good start to undermine the whole proc purpose of the system people feel that they don’t need to book and they can turn up but yeah we’re certainly not turning people

Away um because they say that’s just be a silly situation to to enter into if there’s capacity on the site to to accept them and on the issue of commercial waste again I think that’s an opportunity that the booking system actually that provides you if you’ve got

A robust way of of being able to um accommodate people into the site over the operating hours to free up um sort of capacity within the service then yes you can start looking at income generating opportunities um and one of those would certainly be B commercial

Waste and I know that we um we have a um a new head of waste operation starting with us um in the new year and that’s one of the the things that we’ve got on his task list for for when he starts to look at how do we um to use the the

Phrase sweep the asset get as much out of the these facilities as we’ve got so they not only serve our residents but also look to and potentially generate an income stream to to reduce Financial pressures in the that’s really good to hear because we the the recycling senses

Are really good at segregation I mean I’ve looked at that the segregation waste the support as um C goggin said you know from the staff now to say well no this needs to go there that needs to go there so you’ve got a really good way of separating those was out and that’s

Really the the start of recycling um absolutely first and foremost whereas a builder will very much just stick it in a skip get the skip cleared away that’s not great for recycling so thank you okay final question is for Council black just one thing did did we decide what the strategy was for

Telephone booking I I get the impression that uh most counselors are saying that some of their residents would like the telephone booking system to continue is that uh on the cards uh yes it is chair um Telephone booking is very much on the card um I think currently it mentions in

Uh the briefing that we get about 500 per month um and of course uh that will be uh going used going forward as well because as we all know uh while as many people as possible do do it um digitally or through an app the booking system or

Through the website there is uh currently a smaller need for that telephone system and it is in buiness that service will be uh going forward as well okay I think the only comment that I’ve heard is it’s Monday to Friday office hour yes it is yeah so that’s

Okay it’s really going to stay at that level you think I mean that that’s something that we will have to take away I mean obviously at the moment it’s um it’s a telephone booking process happens through the um County contact center and they’re the operating hours of the

Contact center the County Council so again that that’s something that we would we would need to need to need to look at um again it’s it’s trying to ensure that we’ve got that level that’s commensurate with the usage of that that part of the service but again I think

Combined with I raised earlier for for Council Sidle that someone needs to use the booking service and Tel phone they couldn’t do at the weekend they turned up at the site again we’re not looking to turn people away from from the service trying to find that right balance it’s access for thank you

Council Blackwell yeah thank you chairman chairman quick I was saying that when it first was bought in of course there was a lot of resistance wor everybody was against it um now I think people are getting used to it um I’ve used it several times and

Residents I talk to Now find find it very very easy the one question I ask do we still have um a restriction on how many times you can visit in one day um no um shortly short we have no no restrictions so people want to make um

You multiple booking they they they can do we do have some um some restrictions around um the depositing of construction demolition waste um that’s part of a national picture where that that that um through regulations the um arment on local authorities to accept that waste is limited so we do have some limits

Over some of those material streams but in terms of if people want to make multiple visits they can make multiple bookings providing their bring in household waste and and they’re not running acial operation and that that’s not something we’re looking to excellent and could I could I finally say could be

Um we tend to rely on our website for all the information which is very very good but are there still quite a large part of our population who don’t go online I often get people asking me what is the number how to book it um can we

Make sure we got more promotion maybe in our libraries or various other places just so people we want to encourage enourage people to use it we want to cut down people flight toly but can I finally say what the chairman said uh I can only go by our sight the staff and

Oursite are amazing and people always telling me how helpful they are and I think that should be relayed back to them because they are doing a brilliant job and they’re helping people so much and people really enjoy going down there now but people enjoy going down there

And friendly so thank you very much thank you very much get out more no thank you very much that’s really well received and so we will obviously pass that back to back to our site St because say they are out there in weathers um and they do sometimes

Have some some difficult um difficult customers to to to deal with so it’s always nice to have those positive comments so final question from from from the members just simple question but probably a difficult answer what’s the cost of the extra booking system where are the savings

Um the decision to to Trav the booking system was was not about making savings now we think there have been some savings we think there’s been you know some efficiency savings um which will translate into a financial saving um and also some things through you know Commercial Way sneaking

Into the system but we haven’t looked to calculate that in terms of the cost though um we obviously do have have date on that we’ve had the core cost or the core increase in cost has been associated with provision of the system itself so that Tech that piece of

Technology to to manage the bookings um and it’s a very small cost um it’s in the region of £10,000 a year across all of the sites um so that’s the actual the piece of technology we’ve had no requirement for additional staff on sites so this is accommodated through the existing Staffing complement so

Although I know users of the service would have seen you know an individual standing on the the gate um that is not a new person that’s someone who was already on the site they are now acting as that sort of gatekeeper role res when they they come on the site to where do

You need to go and and direct them in the right place as well as checking their booking so the only real cost has been associated with the um with the the actual booking technology itself okay may I just throw just folling on what you say um I

Had occasion to visit a London burough and to and this is chingford yeah it’s just a thought this and it may be totally impractical some of those sites actually have a shop on site and I just wondered if ever that’s been considered as well I mean I don’t know how practicable it is

But I went to the chingford one and in the corner was a load of kids toys and things like that that they decided weren’t going to go in the bin and they were flogging them off um very cheaply of course I mean um I don’t know how

Practicable that is but um has that been considered um yes it has and we already have some um ruse activity happening on our SES of VAR site so materials that are suitable for reuse are being separate separated out and they being taken off site for sale so we have a um

At the moment a um a project working with um a organization called Lighthouse project which are based in bran Tre chood organization who are um refurbishing um items um for sale um or for passing on to um families in need within the county so we have have a link

There already with reuse we are however looking at the opportunity for on um onsite sale as well so very similar to what you you’ve seen in chingford with their revie shop and myself went to a similar operation that’s happening at where in hartfordshire where again large

Site and they’ve got a new shop selling items on site so that is again is another area that we’re exploring um on on a number of sites which can accommodate that hopefully that’s something we’ll be able to bring back to this Committee in the in in the New

Year okay I think I’ll I’ll draw this to a conclusion so the summary points that we’ve got here is uh the general support continuation scheme uh the committee would like officers to explore any options for local flexibility uh whilst noting the concerns about deviating from a

Countrywide model uh and we want to look at a pragmatic approach on sites for those that haven’t booked as we’ve found out there uh we would I think we everybody wants to retain the telephone booking system and promote schemes for non- internet users I think we’ve got

That there uh look at any income generating opportunities including commercial waste and reuse shops and uh any further information you’re going to have on the consultation responses and I think I’m going to ask once you’ve had the opportunity to to uh draw something from this meeting and you go to Cabinet

Once you’ve gone to Cabinet could you come back and we finish off the the job that we’ve started that means that’s perfect for scrutiny from my point of view we’re in at the beginning you’ve gone away you’ve had it looked at it you’ve taken it to cabinet cabinet will

Make a decision and we so that’s it um so can I thank uh Jason Peter and Katie for uh a very uh um comprehensive set of questions to be blunt also a very comprehensive set of answers uh there’s none none of this kicking kicking the can down the road

And I think that reflects very well on the level of questions we’ve had so uh if we we’re going to leave you there as we move on to item do you want to move from here now are you so enthralled rest of the meeting thank you chair and we’ll leave uh We’ve noticed

The comments that you’ve made and as you say we’ll take those away look at those go through the cabinet and we will be pleased to come back at some future point to comme thank you thank you got to go To say okay ladies and gents we move on to uh item six well I think uh p on the back there I think the questions that came out were meaningful uh some were local but they were local with the with the a national theme so I’m pleased with

That item six proposed schedule of meeting dates for 2425 uh we now need to agree that meeting dates as circulated and thank you to Lisa please Democratic services for preparing the report thank you very much indeed um following discussions at our pre meeting and not quite as a result of the last

Meeting I am suggesting that on those dates uh historically the start time has been 10:30 but and the reason I looked into it it was 10:30 is they used to have a pre meeting before the meeting so 10:30 was a reasonable start time now we

Have a pre with with the Advent of zoom and teams Etc we now have our pre meetings on a different day which I think is a better theme so I’m going to uh suggest provided you all agree that that that set of meetings that we we we’ve got here um provided you’re happy

With the dates uh I’m going to propose that we start our meetings at 10:00 as opposed to 10:30 is there any objection to that as such okay thank you very much you have from January chair I’m just about to come on to that the um technically we’re we’re

Confirming Lisa’s meetings for next year so what we then do is we um uh we then talk about the item seven which is the date of the next meeting um because there were some people who not here today it’s probably slightly unfair to impose a change of time so for the uh

For the January meeting I’m going to stay at 10:30 just to give everybody the opportunity um to to make their comments um but as it’s a uh a zoom meeting anyway um and it’s a it’s not a public meeting I think that’s okay but I I would be wanting to start the 10:00

Start from February on that means anybody who isn’t here got a big objection they can come back to me um the only thing I would say is um at the moment we it’s slightly awkward apologies if It embarrasses anybody today we finished finishing in a good time there are times when the

Meeting runs up on it’s slightly awkward If part members of the scrutiny committee meeting are going off because they’ve scheduled other meetings I don’t think anybody’s nobody’s going for a private function or a special do or do they are so I’m going to say that I’m

Just going to remind everybody if you if you’re a member of this committee currently it’s to 1:30 so in theory you should be capable of attending the meeting here till 1:30 and then going to something else later so um that’s just a reminder to presumably Mr chairman

You’ll move that half an hour earlier won’t you if it’s 10 start it be one finish with it that if if that gets the general feeling of that gets a general feeling of comfort and that’s uh that will do and that would make life easier for anybody that might have I don’t know

A cult meeting at 2 o’ or something like that uh why was today’s meeting on a Wednesday sorry why is today’s Mee on Wednesday and all your other Mee is be on a Thursday I know that CU I can’t normally get here because I do other

Things on a Thursday oh okay I think it’s because it was Christmas Clash there there was a meeting Clash I can’t remember the details off the top there was a meeting Clash I think that’s a yeah there was a meeting Clash um so the date of the next meeting

Is uh uh scheduled 18th of January uh it is not a a public meeting it’s a private briefing uh it’s confidential mainly because uh we’re talking about contracts uh and that yeah um should make that clear shouldn’t I that that 130 I think the suggestion in the agenda

Was to retain that longer meeting slot so start at 10: but members still hold until 2 so is to give but it’s just to give that flexibility two was never on the two was never on the the the agenda it’s always been 130 isn’t it I think currently the meeting

Um the time is is 10:30 till 1:30 I think we were saying seen something as members saying you should hold till 2:00 yeah from somewhere I think what we’re saying is retain until 1:30 so meeting will start at 10: the booking will go to 1:30 just in case something happens we

Need a break items over did you say that’s a zoom meeting chair uh the um the private briefing is confidential we did that so um the me we’ve got the option haven’t we the meeting currently scheduled for the 18th of January um the suggestion is that that becomes a

Private briefing so not a formal meeting of the committee but a briefing and that will be on the future highways program and because um there’s some commercially sensitive potentially commercially sensitive information officers have requested that that happens in private so the suggestion if members are happy

Is that that’s held as a as a briefing rather than as a formal meeting um that could either be virtually or in person with the option of hybrid or uh uh for those some some people me include would want to be here and some may want to join me here and

Some may prefer not to so if is everybody in agreement that it’s hybrid y okay um can I thank uh Lisa and Freddy and Emma for your work today thank you very much indeed um looks like we’ve still kept our uh Remote open uh therefore no no urgent business to be

Brought up no urgent business brought up can I just then take something to wish everybody a a Merry Christmas uh a happy New Year we’ve had a busy year I’ll be blun a busy year we’ve we’ve got through a lot of work in and the quality of the

Work I think is good quality of the work is reflected in the the quality of the questions and the thing that I like to see more and more I’m getting more and more of members on this committee saying I’ve read the minutes I’ve read this I’ve looked at the agenda and I’d like

To fill out the following points I think that’s a really really good positive step forward and I’m very pleased that we’ve all taken part in that